ore in starting area is low

[aober93]

Is it intended that ore in the starting area is very low compared to the rest of the map?

So atm in 0.15 its like (on max ore setting) 500k-1M on starting area, and 5M-30M on other patches. On lowest ore settings its like 100-200k in starting, and up to 10M on other patches.

This has been in 0.14 too. Where when i played marathon and research revolution its not been enough ore even on maximum ,because the tech to research trains and offense and power generation takes more resources than are in the starting area. I didnt have enough resources to gain ground and fight aliens to get out of the starting zone.

I would rather prefer it the other way around. Have more ore in the starting zone. Is there any way to do this?

[sparr]

Other mods are not balanced for Marathon (the old mod or the new settings). Yes, low resources for a normal game are too-low for a marathon game.

Maybe RSO could detect if the game is in Marathon mode and adjust the relative densities?

[aober93]

Other mods are not balanced for Marathon (the old mod or the new settings). Yes, low resources for a normal game are too-low for a marathon game.

Maybe RSO could detect if the game is in Marathon mode and adjust the relative densities?

Well im questioning the general purpose of the low starting ore. It may not be enough in extreme marathon games, but it doesnt change anything in normal games other than force you to use trains earlier. But lower ore settings force you to use trains earlier too. IE what trainworld preset does.

[sparr]

low frequency means more trains

low size/richness means more resource outposts, but probably close enough together that you can still use belts between them

[orzelek]

If you are playing marathon there are settings in config file to make starting patches or all other ones bigger.
When I move config file to settings system they will be available to set in game.

There is no way to detect marathon preset AFAIK because it doesn't really exist in game. I could test for complex recipes I think but I'm not sure if thats a good idea.

[orzelek]

low frequency means more trains

low size/richness means more resource outposts, but probably close enough together that you can still use belts between them

For RSO low frequency doesn't mean more trains.
Due to way that ore generation works in RSO frequency is relative so setting all ores to low doesn't change anything. Setting som of them to low mean that they will be relatively more rare.

[sparr]

There is no way to detect marathon preset AFAIK because it doesn't really exist in game. I could test for complex recipes I think but I'm not sure if thats a good idea.

I saw some discussion about creating new map presets by extending data during mod loading. Maybe there's a way to read that info about the loaded preset?

[orzelek]

There is no way to detect marathon preset AFAIK because it doesn't really exist in game. I could test for complex recipes I think but I'm not sure if thats a good idea.

I saw some discussion about creating new map presets by extending data during mod loading. Maybe there's a way to read that info about the loaded preset?

There is nothing about game settings in lua docs for map settings. And I belive one of devs stated that those presets simply set all other options.
And I don't think that it would be a good idea to make it automated like this anyway - RSO should not decide suddenly that all resources should be richer because of selected map preset. If someone wants to try low resource game with fast run to trains so they can do it before resources run out it's their choice.

[aober93]

If you are playing marathon there are settings in config file to make starting patches or all other ones bigger.
When I move config file to settings system they will be available to set in game.

There is no way to detect marathon preset AFAIK because it doesn't really exist in game. I could test for complex recipes I think but I'm not sure if thats a good idea.

Oh i didnt check the settings since i downloaded this mod! Its a new 0.15 feature after all. I set starting area multiplier to 10-15 and it kinda matches the rest. Coal and Stone are lower and uranium is even lower even thou i have the same setting for every "very big and very high".
I guess this is good enough.

Still the scaling doesnt seem right out of the box. On very low ore settings you get like unplayable 20k ores, seeing that RSO spreads ore so far apart, this isnt enough, while it doesnt go cheaper than a normal game. On very high settings you also do not get enough ,if assuming that this is the setting to go with very expensive recipes.

The good side to that however seems to be, that default settings give just sufficient starting material for a normal game, while encouraging trains early enough not only because outposts have big patches early on that make building outposts less frequent and stuff like that.

[orzelek]

If you are playing marathon there are settings in config file to make starting patches or all other ones bigger.
When I move config file to settings system they will be available to set in game.

There is no way to detect marathon preset AFAIK because it doesn't really exist in game. I could test for complex recipes I think but I'm not sure if thats a good idea.

Oh i didnt check the settings since i downloaded this mod! Its a new 0.15 feature after all. I set starting area multiplier to 10-15 and it kinda matches the rest. Coal and Stone are lower and uranium is even lower even thou i have the same setting for every "very big and very high".
I guess this is good enough.

Still the scaling doesnt seem right out of the box. On very low ore settings you get like unplayable 20k ores, seeing that RSO spreads ore so far apart, this isnt enough, while it doesnt go cheaper than a normal game. On very high settings you also do not get enough ,if assuming that this is the setting to go with very expensive recipes.

The good side to that however seems to be, that default settings give just sufficient starting material for a normal game, while encouraging trains early enough not only because outposts have big patches early on that make building outposts less frequent and stuff like that.

I think a lot changed in terms of balance of game for 0.15. Previously usually there were to many resources generated at start so you could launch rocket without need to explore.

What do you mean by very low ore settings? I tried with very poor richness and it still gives me decent amount of starting ores (more then 200k iron/copper).

[aober93]

I mean the lowest available. Lowest size, lowest yield. This gives like 20k.

Seems the newest version upped starting ore by around 50%, coal by 100%? I get up to 1,5million in starting ores now on max settings. Thats cool and i am quiet happy with the mod setting in the main menu now anyway lol.

[orzelek]

I mean the lowest available. Lowest size, lowest yield. This gives like 20k.

Seems the newest version upped starting ore by around 50%, coal by 100%? I get up to 1,5million in starting ores now on max settings. Thats cool and i am quiet happy with the mod setting in the main menu now anyway lol.

There should be no changes in actual mod behaviour in last update. But if you chose different map gen settings you will get different ore amounts.
There is a non-0 chance I broke something but it seemed same for me on default settings.

[aober93]

Maybe in your 2nd last update then

[sparr]

"last update" is very confusing terminology here.

One person might say 0.15.4 -> 0.15.5 is the last update, while another person uses that term to describe 0.14 -> 0.15

[orzelek]

Nothing changed as far as ore generation in any of 3.x versions so ore shouldn't get very low suddenly.
Playing with map settings could do that - or in later versions changing the mod settings available from menu.

If you have case where resources are really very low please post map exchange string and your mod-settings.json file (can be found in same location as log file).

[TheWesDude]

very low frequency, big, very good...

this map is unplayable with the lack of resources. cant even get enough resources to setup trains to ore spawns nor due to their size would it really be worth it. sure they would last a long time but they arent big enough to get enough miners on them to reasonably fill up a train.

Code: Select all

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AAAAAAAA8D8Tk/V2<<<

[sparr]

I can't launch the game right now. Is it possible that water consumed some of the starting resources? That's a more common problem in 0.15 across the board.

[orzelek]

very low frequency, big, very good...

this map is unplayable with the lack of resources. cant even get enough resources to setup trains to ore spawns nor due to their size would it really be worth it. sure they would last a long time but they arent big enough to get enough miners on them to reasonably fill up a train.

Code: Select all

>>>AAAPAAYAAAADAwcAAAAEAAAAY29hbAEEBQoAAABjb3BwZXItb3Jl
AQQFCQAAAGNydWRlLW9pbAEFBQoAAABlbmVteS1iYXNlAgIFCAAAAGl
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AECfQAEAAAAAAEB/QAEAAAAAAECPQAEzMzMzMzPzPwEzMzMzMzPzPwF
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Mz0z8BAAAAAAAACEABAAAAAAAAJEABPAAAAAEeAAAAAcgAAAABBQAAA
AEAAAAAAAAAQAEBAQAAAAAAAFlAAQUAAAABGQAAAAEAAAAAAAAkQAEy
AAAAAQAAAAAAAD5AAWQAAAABmpmZmZmZyT8BMzMzMzMzwz8BMzMzMzM
z0z8BMzMzMzMz0z8BAAAAAAAAJEABAAAAAAAANEABAAAAAAAAPkABAA
AAAAAAFEABAAAAAAAAPkABAAAAAAAAJEABAAAAAAAACEABCgAAAAFkA
AAAAWQAAAAB6AMAAAEAAAAAAADgPwHQBwAAAQAAAAAAQH9AAwAAAAAA
AAAAAAAA8D8Tk/V2<<<

Thats how starting area looks like for me:

Screenshot

StartingArea.png (10.01 KiB) Viewed 7425 times

It seems you might be affected by mod settings corruption bug when you have different mods with mod settings (will be fixed in 0.15.7).
Please check if your mod settings for RSO weren't corrupted and make sure you are on latest version from mod portal.
If it's the same after you reset them to defaults please post zip with your mods folder.

[TheWesDude]

all i had was RSO that i had just freshly downloaded from the mod portal and base mod, and then after exploring 10-15 screens away all around my starting area all i had found was 2 copper spots and 3 coal spots, all pretty small to where i would have been hard pressed to fit like 20 miners on them.

and i play zoomed out pretty far.

[orzelek]

all i had was RSO that i had just freshly downloaded from the mod portal and base mod, and then after exploring 10-15 screens away all around my starting area all i had found was 2 copper spots and 3 coal spots, all pretty small to where i would have been hard pressed to fit like 20 miners on them.

and i play zoomed out pretty far.

Exploring how?
If you go and make small line you might miss a lot of them.
And really big patches might need to go 2-3k tiles from start at least. And there is also random factor there so patch might be very big and less dense or smaller with more ore per tile.