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Re: [0.12.x] RSO Discussion thread
Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:52 pm
by orzelek
jorgenRe wrote:Hey would it be possible to manually add new ores in(adding a new mod to the game after creating the game) without having to regenerate the whole map resources?
Since game.regenerate_entity does not work
For the moment i will just regen some of the ore deposits i dont need into y-res1 and 2
!
New ores will be applied only to new regions that were not generated yet.
Regen of only new ores is potentially tricky and not supported - it would lead to interesting side effects and create totally different results then full regen.
Ores are chosen from a given pool for each region and there is no memory of that later - no way to add new ore to the pool and reroll without full regen.
Re: [0.12.x] RSO Discussion thread
Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:11 pm
by jorgenRe
orzelek wrote:jorgenRe wrote:Hey would it be possible to manually add new ores in(adding a new mod to the game after creating the game) without having to regenerate the whole map resources?
Since game.regenerate_entity does not work
For the moment i will just regen some of the ore deposits i dont need into y-res1 and 2
!
New ores will be applied only to new regions that were not generated yet.
Regen of only new ores is potentially tricky and not supported - it would lead to interesting side effects and create totally different results then full regen.
Ores are chosen from a given pool for each region and there is no memory of that later - no way to add new ore to the pool and reroll without full regen.
Ouch :/
Well then atleast i guess it might be wise to let people know of the commands i'm using to fix that
Code: Select all
/c results = game.surfaces["nauvis"].find_entities_filtered{area = {{game.players[1].position.x-15, game.players[1].position.y- 15}, {game.players[1].position.x+15, game.players[1].position.y+15}}, name = "ore-you-want-to-exchange-with-ore-you-want"} for b, ent in pairs(results) do game.surfaces["nauvis"].create_entity({name = "ore-you-want", position = ent.position}) ent.destroy() end
/c results = game.surfaces["nauvis"].find_entities_filtered{area = {{game.players[1].position.x-15, game.players[1].position.y- 15}, {game.players[1].position.x+15, game.players[1].position.y+15}}, name = "ore-you-want"} for b, ent in pairs(results) do ent.amount = 500 end --500 is how much ore each resource spot will give
Re: [0.12.x] RSO Discussion thread
Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:54 pm
by orzelek
New version up - one more attempt to rebalance the ores
It should have more resources in outside patches and also in starting area.
Richness settings for resources are now a bit more important - can use them to influence amount of ore significantly.
For those who like a lot of enemies - high and very high frequency and size settings for enemy bases have more impact now. Can get quite crowded with both of those on very high - should work for those who like company
Starting area might need to be reduced a bit to not provide to much stuff - a lot depends on style of play I think.
Re: [0.12.x] RSO Discussion thread
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 1:45 am
by Darloth
Could you provide config settings for how rich the starting area is specifically please, if that isn't in already?
Ideally, for separate ores - I like to have the basics (iron, copper, coal, water) but then have to expand to find everything interesting (anything else from a mod).
Re: [0.12.x] RSO Discussion thread
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:54 am
by orzelek
It's currently configured on per resource basis in configuration files. All of those are in the resourceconfigs directory.
Adding per ore setting to config file is probably tricky - would need to have to many settings.
Adding single starting area richness multiplier is possible without problems.
Re: [0.12.x] RSO Discussion thread
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:58 am
by jorgenRe
Darloth wrote:Could you provide config settings for how rich the starting area is specifically please, if that isn't in already?
Ideally, for separate ores - I like to have the basics (iron, copper, coal, water) but then have to expand to find everything interesting (anything else from a mod).
If so then I think you may like my the underground mod once it's out of the WIP section; )
Re: [0.12.x] RSO Discussion thread
Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 1:45 am
by Klop1324
Hey, I've been trying to get RSO to generate large (think large lake sized) but extremely rare ore nodes and semi-rare but large biter bases so i can use my train system effectively. After messing with the configs (and the vanilla ore file) for a while i'm thoroughly stumped is there some way to do this? or am i going to have to be content with mediocre sized ore nodes and remaking stations every day (my factory consumes ~4m plates per hour draining small/medium sized nodes extremely quickly).
Any thoughts? configurations i should try? mysterious magic bullets I've managed to miss?
i'm running factorio 12.2 and RSO 1.3.0
Re: [0.12.x] RSO Discussion thread
Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 2:09 am
by Vin
Klop1324 wrote:Hey, I've been trying to get RSO to generate large (think large lake sized) but extremely rare ore nodes and semi-rare but large biter bases so i can use my train system effectively. After messing with the configs (and the vanilla ore file) for a while i'm thoroughly stumped is there some way to do this? or am i going to have to be content with mediocre sized ore nodes and remaking stations every day (my factory consumes ~4m plates per hour draining small/medium sized nodes extremely quickly).
Any thoughts? configurations i should try? mysterious magic bullets I've managed to miss?
i'm running factorio 12.2 and RSO 1.3.0
You could try the (patched for 0.12) RSO version 1.0.3. It uses a different method of generating resources that may be more to your liking.
Re: [0.12.x] RSO Discussion thread
Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:09 am
by orzelek
Klop1324 wrote:Hey, I've been trying to get RSO to generate large (think large lake sized) but extremely rare ore nodes and semi-rare but large biter bases so i can use my train system effectively. After messing with the configs (and the vanilla ore file) for a while i'm thoroughly stumped is there some way to do this? or am i going to have to be content with mediocre sized ore nodes and remaking stations every day (my factory consumes ~4m plates per hour draining small/medium sized nodes extremely quickly).
Any thoughts? configurations i should try? mysterious magic bullets I've managed to miss?
i'm running factorio 12.2 and RSO 1.3.0
Extremely rare can be done by modifying config file setting absolute_resource_chance. Default is 60% of resources per region - can drop it and see how it works for you.
Biter bases you can play with map-gen settings - lowering frequency and upping size should do it. Might want to disable enemy expansion in config file since with it on biters will build more bases.
Ore deposit amounts were increased recently - you can boost them from map gen settings or using config file modifiers global_richness_mult and global_size_mult. I'd be careful with size multiplier - very big patches will cause generation errors on sides.
One thing to be aware of is that any changes done on running game will not affect anything pre-generated - some regions that you only partially discovered are already generated and they won't be affected.
@Vin - Current RSO version has same generation algorithms that 1.0.3 used. There is a change to balance ore amounts but you can affect those from settings listed above or map gen.
Re: [0.12.x] RSO Discussion thread
Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:52 am
by aka13
Hello, I wanted to ask if it makes sense to upgrade from 1.2.8 to 1.3? I play with marathon and consume around 3k copper per minute, right now it feels somewhat empty.
Re: [0.12.x] RSO Discussion thread
Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:55 am
by yeganer
You should update because in 1.2.8 the amount of ore in a patch doesn't scale with it's size. You can try to regenerate the world after updating(backup 1st) or just explore into new lands.
Re: [0.12.x] RSO Discussion thread
Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 8:18 am
by aka13
I updated without any problems. Should I change any configs, or will it "just work"?
Re: [0.12.x] RSO Discussion thread
Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:46 am
by yeganer
It should "just work"
depending on your map_gen_settings(which are read now) it could be needed to change the config.
you could use the map exchange string to generate the same map and see how the resources look there
Code: Select all
\c game.forces.player.chart(game.surfaces.nauvis, {{-1024,-1024},{1024,1024}})
might help there
Re: [0.12.x] RSO Discussion thread
Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:00 am
by aka13
So, in case I would want the future resource generation be more/or less rich I would edit the save-specific map gen settings? Do I understand it right?
Re: [0.12.x] RSO Discussion thread
Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:04 am
by yeganer
I don't think you can edit the save specific map_gen_settings. that's why you would have to change the config file if you are not happy with the generation RSO produces in combination with your map_gen_settings
Re: [0.12.x] RSO Discussion thread
Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:06 am
by aka13
Ahh, that explains it. I never got it from the description of the mod, if your algorithms base on the settings provided by the map generator, or are constants in your config. I am so far satisfied with the generation, was just wondering.
Thank you for your help.
Re: [0.12.x] RSO Discussion thread
Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 1:21 pm
by Vin
orzelek wrote:There is a change to balance ore amounts.
This is exactly what I'm referring to.
Forcing total resources regardless of patch size does weird things to generation. For example, I saw someone playing a couple days ago that had >100k coal in a one miner sized patch. In the other circumstance, you could find what looks like a huge patch of ore and realize you've depleted it in a matter of 20 minutes because RSO killed the richness due to size.
It's actually nice there are two different versions so people have a choice on whether they want balance or luck, but only helps if people are aware of the two versions.
Or has that changed in recent versions? I haven't followed development because I'm happy with the older version.
Re: [0.12.x] RSO Discussion thread
Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 2:50 pm
by aka13
Vin wrote:orzelek wrote:There is a change to balance ore amounts.
This is exactly what I'm referring to.
Forcing total resources regardless of patch size does weird things to generation. For example, I saw someone playing a couple days ago that had >100k coal in a one miner sized patch. In the other circumstance, you could find what looks like a huge patch of ore and realize you've depleted it in a matter of 20 minutes because RSO killed the richness due to size.
It's actually nice there are two different versions so people have a choice on whether they want balance or luck, but only helps if people are aware of the two versions.
Or has that changed in recent versions? I haven't followed development because I'm happy with the older version.
I had that stuff happening to me in 1.2.8, with 3-miner size 200-300k recource fields...
Re: [0.12.x] RSO Discussion thread
Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 8:44 pm
by orzelek
It all depends on whats the actual goal - as I wrote before I'm pretty frustrated with all the attempts at balancing the ore amounts
In 1.3.0 you will get more resources due to changes:
1. Base amount is 2x it was before.
2. Size is now taken into account for total richness so bigger deposits will get more ore.
3. I redid how size and richness distance factors work. Main difference is on richness one and there should be a visible difference if you go far out from center.
4. Random generation for shape is allowed now to go closer to actual required size - means you can get bigger patches.
As for small patches with huge amounts - rng is what it is
I can prevent it from making things to insane but that means you will lose resources in theory since field that should have 200k but you will get only 10k.
There is also a simple option to return to generation that was ignoring total amount of ore. There was a factor of richness applied to each ore node and that would also work. It means that there is no way at all to control the ore amounts then - there is no way to get predictive generation based on size only I think. And then people will complain about the fact that one starting resource patch is enough to end the game
Considering some fields size (especially if the size increase triggers) you will have fields netting in 10+ mil regions potentially. If you want that now you can still go overboard with global richness multiplier or go for highest richness settings on map gen (it's 4x on amount currently).
@Vin
I could add some kind of config setting that will return to generation as it was before - that would come with disclaimer "not trying to balance anything there". Would try to make sane amounts of ore per node but nothing more. You can continue to use 1.0.3 - but it actually prevents creation of biggest patches due to bug
Re: [0.12.x] RSO Discussion thread
Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:21 am
by Vin
I wouldn't offer both methods of resource generation because it would split the effort you allocate into maintaining the mod into two places. I would pick the one you think is the healthiest for the mod and if people don't like it, they can offer feedback and then either not use it/use another version/write their own.
Quick edit to be on topic: As far as balancing goes, I think the more rules you enforce on world generation, the more unnatural it feels. I used the tiny ore patch with massive richness as an example because it's a case where trying to balance had a negative impact (for me) on how the map feels. What I would want is a rigid enforcement of what's in the starting area (a small bit of everything to get you to rails and a very small amount oil to allow construction bots) and then allowing randomness to takeover with nudges from the distance multiplier to ensure that whatever is generated is worth going to get.
Sometimes that method will generate nothing for a long while, and sometimes you might get a ton of stuff right around (outside of, but very close to) the starting area. That to me is fine, random map generation is random. Not every seed is going to be awesomesauce.