Factorio Forums

I might be doing something wrong, but neither
/c remote.call("RSO", "clear")
or
/c remote.call("RSO", "regenerate")
seems to affect some of the chunks I've already visited, but not all. I could see ore patches changing on the outside of permament radar coverage, but not within (the scans would update showing ore missing and find new patches)
Is there a way to force re-generate everything outside the starting area?
I've had bad settings when i started the map and now i have really fugly ores all over the place



Those ore patches get cleared just fine



But partf of a patch of coal remains, as well as those two blobs further north



Those ore patches are below the ones in 2nd pic, and won't get erased no matter what, patches further away from main base got cleared without issue

I figured it out
I changed the region size from 7 to 15 and for some reason that makes the /rso-clear /rso-regenerate not work in (what i assume) is the "starting area", which suddenly got bigger, due to region size change
When I changed the region size back to 7 and ran /rso-clear or regenerate it worked just as expected.

So i guess it has something to do with starting area being counted weird (also, I'm pretty sure with increased region size the starting area overall gets way too big - ive had some RSO maps with bigger regions where any ores other than the starting ones were massively pushed out)

emp_zealoth wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 12:57 am So i guess it has something to do with starting area being counted weird (also, I'm pretty sure with increased region size the starting area overall gets way too big - ive had some RSO maps with bigger regions where any ores other than the starting ones were massively pushed out)

I've noticed this, too. With a region size of 21, I believe it was, and a starting size of 600%, no ores spawned until around 2000 tiles from the starting area.

I think that there is a note somewhere that you should not change the region size in a running game - thats because you will notice issues like this potentially.

And starting area size is in regions and thats taken from map settings. So making region size to 21 means a huge starting area.
You don't need to set it so big in map settings when planning to play with such big region sizes.

If you want to clear the ores outside starting area then set region size to old value, call clear and then set it to new one and then regenerate ores.

orzelek wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:15 am And starting area size is in regions and thats taken from map settings. So making region size to 21 means a huge starting area.
You don't need to set it so big in map settings when planning to play with such big region sizes.

Ah, ok. I guess that explains it. In my use case, I was wanting the distance between spawned ores to be really spread out, but I was still having issues with biter bases starting fairly close (ended up just decreasing the frequency and size sliders for them). Also, starting area affects cliffs, and I like to try and push them some, too, without affecting their frequency or continuity further out.

FuryoftheStars wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:21 am

orzelek wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:15 am And starting area size is in regions and thats taken from map settings. So making region size to 21 means a huge starting area.
You don't need to set it so big in map settings when planning to play with such big region sizes.

Ah, ok. I guess that explains it. In my use case, I was wanting the distance between spawned ores to be really spread out, but I was still having issues with biter bases starting fairly close (ended up just decreasing the frequency and size sliders for them). Also, starting area affects cliffs, and I like to try and push them some, too, without affecting their frequency or continuity further out.

Hmm I do recall seeing something about enemies mentioned somewhere else. I might need to check if enemy generation is respecting starting area size correctly.

orzelek wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:27 am

FuryoftheStars wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:21 am

orzelek wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:15 am And starting area size is in regions and thats taken from map settings. So making region size to 21 means a huge starting area.
You don't need to set it so big in map settings when planning to play with such big region sizes.

Ah, ok. I guess that explains it. In my use case, I was wanting the distance between spawned ores to be really spread out, but I was still having issues with biter bases starting fairly close (ended up just decreasing the frequency and size sliders for them). Also, starting area affects cliffs, and I like to try and push them some, too, without affecting their frequency or continuity further out.

Hmm I do recall seeing something about enemies mentioned somewhere else. I might need to check if enemy generation is respecting starting area size correctly.

I did happen upon this thread a few minutes ago while looking for something else: viewtopic.php?t=71050

Edit: Hah! And I posted in that thread back then, too. I gotta test if that issue with Rampant not using spawners spawned by RSO is fixed or not....

FuryoftheStars wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:38 am

orzelek wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:27 am

FuryoftheStars wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:21 am

orzelek wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:15 am And starting area size is in regions and thats taken from map settings. So making region size to 21 means a huge starting area.
You don't need to set it so big in map settings when planning to play with such big region sizes.

Ah, ok. I guess that explains it. In my use case, I was wanting the distance between spawned ores to be really spread out, but I was still having issues with biter bases starting fairly close (ended up just decreasing the frequency and size sliders for them). Also, starting area affects cliffs, and I like to try and push them some, too, without affecting their frequency or continuity further out.

Hmm I do recall seeing something about enemies mentioned somewhere else. I might need to check if enemy generation is respecting starting area size correctly.

I did happen upon this thread a few minutes ago while looking for something else: viewtopic.php?t=71050

Edit: Hah! And I posted in that thread back then, too. I gotta test if that issue with Rampant not using spawners spawned by RSO is fixed or not....

I checked the code and it should respect the starting area size properly. One thing that might make enemies to be before resources if they simply roll randomly in their region closer then resources.
And I think I vaguely remember that bug might have been that enemy bases are not properly scaled based on actual distance from starting area.

orzelek wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:34 pm

FuryoftheStars wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:38 am

orzelek wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:27 am

FuryoftheStars wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:21 am

orzelek wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:15 am And starting area size is in regions and thats taken from map settings. So making region size to 21 means a huge starting area.
You don't need to set it so big in map settings when planning to play with such big region sizes.

Ah, ok. I guess that explains it. In my use case, I was wanting the distance between spawned ores to be really spread out, but I was still having issues with biter bases starting fairly close (ended up just decreasing the frequency and size sliders for them). Also, starting area affects cliffs, and I like to try and push them some, too, without affecting their frequency or continuity further out.

Hmm I do recall seeing something about enemies mentioned somewhere else. I might need to check if enemy generation is respecting starting area size correctly.

I did happen upon this thread a few minutes ago while looking for something else: viewtopic.php?t=71050

Edit: Hah! And I posted in that thread back then, too. I gotta test if that issue with Rampant not using spawners spawned by RSO is fixed or not....

I checked the code and it should respect the starting area size properly. One thing that might make enemies to be before resources if they simply roll randomly in their region closer then resources.
And I think I vaguely remember that bug might have been that enemy bases are not properly scaled based on actual distance from starting area.

Yeah, sorry, if you have RSO biter generation enabled and vanilla biter generation disabled, that is indeed true. I have the opposite set at the moment because of that bug with Rampant where it wasn't generating attack waves with biters created by spawners that were placed by another mod. That's the bug I need to check and see if it's still present or not. If it is fixed, then I can switch those settings back around and that should solve biter nest spawning too close.

From what I recall RSO biter generation can still nerf Rampant badly so it's.. hard to get correct. Rampant is not used to having so few biter bases I think - I did not do to many experiments on that and I still used vanilla gen with it.

Hmm, but didn't RSO use to greatly increase the number of biter nests compared to vanilla ? (Or is that only for Death World ?)

BlueTemplar wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:22 pm Hmm, but didn't RSO use to greatly increase the number of biter nests compared to vanilla ? (Or is that only for Death World ?)

If you mouse over the "Use RSO biter generation" setting, the popup has the text "[...] It's more sparse then vanilla to allow for resource scouting." (Speaking of which, orzelek, "then" should be "than".)

That said, I'm trying to do some testing.
Vanilla on/RSO off, vanilla map gen set for 25% freq / 25% size, Rampant still sends attack waves and expands, etc.
Vanilla off/RSO on, vanilla map gen set for 100% freq / 100% size (these do seem to have an effect still), RSO set for 25% freq / 100% size, so far I'm not noticing them expanding or doing much of anything, but I'm still testing.

FuryoftheStars wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:45 pm

BlueTemplar wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:22 pm Hmm, but didn't RSO use to greatly increase the number of biter nests compared to vanilla ? (Or is that only for Death World ?)

If you mouse over the "Use RSO biter generation" setting, the popup has the text "[...] It's more sparse then vanilla to allow for resource scouting." (Speaking of which, orzelek, "then" should be "than".)

That said, I'm trying to do some testing.
Vanilla on/RSO off, vanilla map gen set for 25% freq / 25% size, Rampant still sends attack waves and expands, etc.
Vanilla off/RSO on, vanilla map gen set for 100% freq / 100% size (these do seem to have an effect still), RSO set for 25% freq / 100% size, so far I'm not noticing them expanding or doing much of anything, but I'm still testing.

RSO is meant to make enemy bases more sparse by design. It lets you explore freely at least before they they start expanding and fill up the free space. I didn't check how it looks when you set it to deathworld.

That was my experience with RSO in 0.16 - Death World had a LOT more nests than the (old) vanilla generator (pretty sure that this description was already there ?) - but I thought that it was just trying to replicate the (yet older) "wall of red" 0.14 feeling ?

BlueTemplar wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 5:22 pm That was my experience with RSO in 0.16 - Death World had a LOT more nests than the (old) vanilla generator (pretty sure that this description was already there ?) - but I thought that it was just trying to replicate the (yet older) "wall of red" 0.14 feeling ?

It seems that current deathworld RSO might be actually denser then vanilla one. My guess would be that vanilla changed since I don't recall any RSO changes in that area.
If you want some real fun set the enemy sliders to 600% and start the game