Make green science be enabled by Automation 2

[teemu]

You need the blue assembling machine to manufacture inserters, which green science needs. So it doesn't make much sense to have green science enabled from the beginning. So I think the green science should be unlocked when the blue assembling machines are. I think this would help new players better figure out what to do, green science may seem a bit intimidating from the beginning. Have the challenge "unlock" when you get the tools needed to solve it.

[Koub]

Actually I can craft inserters by hand .

[teemu]

The point of science is to manufacture it. Or are you going to craft 200 green sciences manually to research red belts?

[Koub]

Of course not, but I can craft 200 inserters by hand in under 2 minutes if I have the components (which can be crafted in an assembly machine 1). And I can handfeed a handful of AM1 to craft my green science for me.
I'm not saying I do it on regular basis, just that the game allows it.

[teemu]

My point is that the green science cannot be manufactured with the resources available at game start. It only becomes possible with Automation 2. It would be more straightforward to new players if there was only one science type to worry about.

You don't actually need to worry about the green science from the beginning, of course. But the game doesn't make this too clear. This information is something I feel I could've used when I started playing this game.

[5thHorseman]

Actually it's probably a good object lesson in "You can't always do what you want right away, and need to research more."

[daniel34]

Actually it's probably a good object lesson in "You can't always do what you want right away, and need to research more."

I agree. This is similar to a lot of bug reports like 35455 where you can research the personal solar panel, but are unable to craft it until you also research the solar panel itself.

And as Koub already mentioned you are able to craft green science by hand. Gating green science behind the blue assembling machine doesn't help anybody, in fact it can confuse people. We had some bug reports in the 0.14 and earlier era where people asked how to enable blue science because it was enabled when you researched the "Battery" technology. I fear the same would happen if green science was restricted by technology, resulting in people asking how to enable green science.

[5thHorseman]

Not to mention "Automation 2" is generally the first thing you research after "Automation 1"

[teemu]

Not to mention "Automation 2" is generally the first thing you research after "Automation 1"

I usually go for Logistics straight up, possibly even first up. I need the splitters early on.

[sparr]

This thread is a great example of people who don't realize that other people play the game differently than they do.

Some people DO produce hundreds of inserters by hand to kickstart their green science, especially on some weird challenge maps/mods.

[5thHorseman]

Not to mention "Automation 2" is generally the first thing you research after "Automation 1"

I usually go for Logistics straight up, possibly even first up. I need the splitters early on.

I try to craft the least number of things in my inventory as possible, so I'd not use those splitters until I could make them in Assembler-2s

[bobingabout]

I'm fairly sure you can make green science straight from the beginning, you just can't automate it until you get the assembling machine 2 with Automation 2.

[teemu]

I'm fairly sure you can make green science straight from the beginning, you just can't automate it until you get the assembling machine 2 with Automation 2.

That's the point of this thread.

[Zool]

Well, lets look back in history a bit:
A genious like Da Vinci was able to research dozens of different flying machines, but due to the limitations of materials and technologies in the early centurys, he was not able to successfully craft functioning versions of them.

Or back to today: Just 15 years ago, it would already have been easy to develop a well-working electric car, but the battery technology still was too limited to allow its usage for high ranges. You can find examples like that all over in real life research.

[bobingabout]

I'm fairly sure you can make green science straight from the beginning, you just can't automate it until you get the assembling machine 2 with Automation 2.

That's the point of this thread.

don't lock it behind it's automation limit.
I often have several packs made and used before I'm at the point of being able to automate them.

Also, I think my mod locks Automation 2 behind green science, so that change would break things.