Inserter swinging before checking circuit signal

Ideas, that are too old (too much things changed) or won't be implemented cause of some reasons or if there are obvious better suggestions.

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Pence128
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Re: Inserter swinging before checking circuit signal

Post by Pence128 »

FuryoftheStars wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:16 pm

Yes, I’m considering the decision to swing as part of the swinging action.
Ok. I consider the inserter to be swinging when it is actually swinging.
FuryoftheStars wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:16 pm

Why? Because the circuit is setup to allow this. In a scenario where the inserters are disabled by default, you can enable them for a full swing with a single pulse from a belt vs holding a signal on it for x ticks. Makes it easier so you don’t have to setup your own timer/latch in combinators for each simple operation.
That's what I said. The actual answer is that inserters effectively take 2 ticks to disable to preserve the 1 pulse = 1 swing functionality that everyone depends on.

mmmPI
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Re: Inserter swinging before checking circuit signal

Post by mmmPI »

Pence128 wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:25 pm
That's what I said. The actual answer is that inserters effectively take 2 ticks to disable to preserve the 1 pulse = 1 swing functionality that everyone depends on.
inserter de-activate 1 tick after they receive signal.

In a setup with a train station, the train station emit signal 1 tick after the train arrive.

Thus the inserter require 2 tick to deactivate after the train arrive when you use a train station, since it's 1 extra entity that add a 1 tick delay.

Pence128
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Re: Inserter swinging before checking circuit signal

Post by Pence128 »

mmmPI wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:46 pm

In a setup with a train station, the train station emit signal 1 tick after the train arrive.
The station emits a signal the same tick that the train stops. See image 1 and 2 above.

mmmPI
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Re: Inserter swinging before checking circuit signal

Post by mmmPI »

Pence128 wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:59 pm
mmmPI wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:46 pm
In a setup with a train station, the train station emit signal 1 tick after the train arrive.
The station emits a signal the same tick that the train stops. See image 1 and 2 above.
that's one way to say, you consider when you read "arrive_station" that the train is not yet there ( tick0). but the inserter does see the train and consider it should activate next tick (tick1).

same the station consider it should start broadcasting next tick (tick1)

then tick 2 the inserter receive the signal and process it. but it's 1 tick too late.

You can say it's the same tick (tick1) or you can say it's 1 tick after the train arrive ( which would be tick 0) then tick 1 you have the signal and the inserter written "waiting source item", then the grabbing of material occur during tick transition , then tick 2 the inserter behave according to the signal is written "disabled".

the station start broadcasting signal at the same moment where the inserter is activated because both those entity are interacting directly with the train (=>1 tick delay or the same tick that's just T oor T1).

But the signal on the inserter need 2 tick to arrive to the inserter, because it comes from the train to the station, that's 1 tick, and the next tick it goes from the station to the inserter.

since the inserter is "active" by default due to game considering no signal = 0 landmine, and the counter-order is generated by the station, and require 1 tick to propagate from the station to the inserter. Then the inserter has the counter-order 1 tick too late. that Single tick is enough to generate a swing when not picking up from belts.



[edit] : in your screenshot, the one you called tick 2, you read landmine number in network 2216, this is emited by station, but it is not yet received by inserter. That's only the first tick the signal has been emited by the station, that means (in my reasonning) that it's already 1 tick after the train arrived. This is also the tick where you can read "waiting for source item" in the inserter, this is the behavior it has when it sees a train( the tick after its arrival), because the signal need 1 more tick to reach said inserter and disable it. ( the little lamp on the inserter is green at this point, not closed-by-circuit-red yet).

Loewchen
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Re: Inserter swinging before checking circuit signal

Post by Loewchen »

If you still need help with signal propagation, open a Gameplay Help topic.

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