Page 5 of 8

Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:30 pm
by Ringkeeper
hmmmmm...... 4 pumps per inlet dont get it full but 3 do..... someone understand the fluid logik -.-

thanks :)

Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:58 pm
by Fatmice
Ringkeeper wrote:hmmmmm...... 4 pumps per inlet dont get it full but 3 do..... someone understand the fluid logik -.-

thanks :)
It's not that. Notice the minimal piping. I only give it as much liquid as it needs. 3 off-shore pumps per inlet is already more than can be transported by the piping system. Having a fourth won't do you any good.

Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:06 pm
by Ringkeeper
thats why i had the A2 pipes, which should transport more. but somehow they didn't.

Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:06 pm
by Fatmice
Ringkeeper wrote:thats why i had the A2 pipes, which should transport more. but somehow they didn't.
Nope, you didn't read my link. Please read it. It is not how fluid works in this game.

Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 7:16 am
by brab
I just read the link and I'm more confused. If I understand correctly, to get fluid velocity you divide the pressure by some factor. The tightest the pipe the easiest it is to achieve high pressure (since a tight pipe has smaller capacity and pressure is a ratio of current capacity to max capacity), hence high velocity. Now the part that I don't get is the relation between fluid velocity and flow (amount of fluid carried each tick or second). Since a tighter pipe has less capacity, it needs more velocity to carry the same amount of fluid each second. So does this even out and the flow of every pipe is the same? Or are some pipe better (in terms of flow) than others?

Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 9:18 am
by Fatmice
There is a set of relationships in the game code that we're not privy to seeing that relate the following fluid prototype properties

pressure_to_speed_ratio (previously pressure_to_velocity_ratio) -- the smaller this number the higher the resistance to flow
flow_to_energy_ratio -- liken to momentum, once fluid start flowing, it has a certain energy to keep going
max_push_amount -- ? I'm not sure what this s referring to...not likely fluid units though
ratio_to_push -- ? Not sure either.

I'm told that fluid velocity (how fast fluid traverse through the pipe) is simply

speed = columnDiff * fluidPrototype->pressureToSpeedRatio + connection.flowEnergy - oppositeConnection.flowEnergy;

With default values being
max_push_amount = 1
ratio_to_push= 2.1

columnDiff is volume difference between two fluidboxes (A) and (B). The fluid update pattern is left->right or top->bottom. If (A) -> (B), then columnDiff = (B)-(A). I can not say much about connection.flowEnergy since I was never told the formula for that, but I guess that it would involve the flow_to_energy_ratio.
brab wrote:I just read the link and I'm more confused. If I understand correctly, to get fluid velocity you divide the pressure by some factor. The tightest the pipe the easiest it is to achieve high pressure (since a tight pipe has smaller capacity and pressure is a ratio of current capacity to max capacity), hence high velocity. Now the part that I don't get is the relation between fluid velocity and flow (amount of fluid carried each tick or second). Since a tighter pipe has less capacity, it needs more velocity to carry the same amount of fluid each second. So does this even out and the flow of every pipe is the same? Or are some pipe better (in terms of flow) than others?
You can measure things to answer the latter question. Yuoki provided some very tight pipes within the yi_engines mod. Not all pipes are created equal. Generally though, things that are more "viscous" flow better in tight pipes. But tight pipes will lower throughput.

Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:34 am
by brab
Thanks. I guess I'll just have to apply the experimental method for this.

Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:10 pm
by Lucky_Evie
Image

How's this for a first attempt at Yuoki and its basic resources, darlings? ;)

Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 3:12 pm
by YuokiTani
not bad :) - but i'am not sure if i would use these big-storage-chest - dust and products have big stack-sizes :)

Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:03 am
by Lucky_Evie
Well, considering the amount of products we get from mining Durotal and Nuatreel, I don't see the point in ever making vanilla chests again.

I mean, come on. The BUNKER, the biggest chest I have (other than the Warehouse, another mod I have), costs: 10 iron, 3 steel, 5 durotal. However, the Steel Chest is 8 steel (80 iron!). And when you see that a Bunker holds 220 stacks instead of 48... That's not even a competition!

Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Posted: Sat May 07, 2016 1:19 pm
by Neotix
Somewhere in factory
Image

Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Posted: Sat May 07, 2016 2:49 pm
by YuokiTani
Lucky_Evie wrote:Well, considering the amount of products we get from mining Durotal and Nuatreel, I don't see the point in ever making vanilla chests again.
I mean, come on. The BUNKER, the biggest chest I have (other than the Warehouse, another mod I have), costs: 10 iron, 3 steel, 5 durotal. However, the Steel Chest is 8 steel (80 iron!). And when you see that a Bunker holds 220 stacks instead of 48... That's not even a competition!
yes, maybe ... but if you don't like the gfx you would never build a bunker. also it may not fit very well into your current factory-layouts. so all have pros and cons.
Very Cool ! - i like it :)
this is definitely the correct use of yuoki-industries :)

Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 1:11 pm
by VexMex
Heyho, i saw that nice corn power plant on the first site and decided to re-create it with some better parts and put it into a blueprint. the only warning is that i used some insertert (actually all of them) from the 5dim's pack because of cheap and fast x'3 (and because i had them first) so if you want to rebuild it, here you have the blueprint code x3
Great wall of Text
btw max is around 53MW POWAH
20160525145334_1.jpg
20160525145334_1.jpg (805.02 KiB) Viewed 3144 times

Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:38 am
by MantisShrimp
ImageImage
The beautiful capsule flower. I think the original design was by MadZuri, I made it more compact with YI stuff. These inserters are absolutely wonderful. I'm having a great time designing factories with them. I know they have existed long before in other mods, but now it's official. :D

Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 12:12 am
by Peppe
That feeling when you forget to leave a path for repaired toolheads back to the ore washers...
rework time

Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 12:40 pm
by YuokiTani
@Mantis
it's impressive and looks nice. i never automated capsules in game the whole time or use them (2 years) - lol - (maybe 5 or 10 defenders 1 year ago)

@peppe
is the maintance-workshop fast enough to keep up with the washers (copper) ?
for going crazy ... use drillheads for dirt-digging ;)

Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:25 pm
by Peppe
YuokiTani wrote:@Mantis
it's impressive and looks nice. i never automated capsules in game the whole time or use them (2 years) - lol - (maybe 5 or 10 defenders 1 year ago)

@peppe
is the maintance-workshop fast enough to keep up with the washers (copper) ?
for going crazy ... use drillheads for dirt-digging ;)
You are right it is a hair slow, but speed modules in it makes up the difference. It can support 12 washers without modules.

If I did the math right:
Blue belt is ~2400 items a minute... washer recipe is 15 ore every 6 seconds. 2400 / 15 = 160 cycles minute / (60/6=10) = 16 washers. 160 broken tool heads a minute = 60 seconds / (1.5/3) = 120 cycles, but with speed modules anything over 4 crafting speed will support 16 or more washers per repair shop.

160 cycles should * 12 pure copper should = 1920 pure copper available to be smelted = 2x, so optimally should be ~1.6 belts of plate output for each belt of input.

Running at 9500 right now. Still some tuning to do... liquid throughput issues gave me headaches for a while. Should be able to get toolheads ~640/m and looking to process that ideal 9600+ copper ore a minute.
now with space for tool head
I looked at the tool head for dirt drills. Looked like it used one of your gears each cycle, which used some steel and blue stuff. Currently running a surplus on unicomp from the dirty water and data fragments, so might be enough to add drill bits and maybe reduce the footprint.


Edit:
Installed EfficienSee mod: https://mods.factorio.com/mods/binbinhfr/EfficienSee
And instantly spotted a ore washer not working from a mixed up fluid in it's output pipe. Cleared it and now get the full capacity 9600 ore/m with 640 toolheads repaired a minute.

Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:06 pm
by Peppe
So I looked at drill bits for dirt and I don't see a good way to use them.

I don't see why you would ever use them... The 5x production is not worth the on-going cost when you could just make 4 more diggers and not have an ongoing cost.

If I math out the maintenance cost to keep drill bits repaired it is ~1.5 Unicomp for durotal, 1.5 - 2.5 durotal for iron ore, and you need some machines to process those to steel and pellets.

My specific case is looking at:
70 diggers one time.
vs
14 diggers using drillbits

To repair the drillbits:
210 duratol chunks a minute (21 Unicomp)
7 crushers making crushed durotal
4 Pressers making durotal pellets

400-700 Iron Ore (22-35 Unicomp)
Either 2 washers using advanced pure iron + 12 furnaces, 3 washers using basic pure iron + 12 furnaces, or 21 furnaces smelting iron ore directly
21 furnaces making steel

2 Assemblers making gears from pellets + steel

11 + 2 + 21 + (14 or 15 or 21) = 48 to 55 buildings to replace 56 diggers doing the basic recipe?

And requires 42-56 unicom worth of raw materials a minute.

Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:38 pm
by Peppe
Played with the ore washing side some more to clean it up and see if the basic washer were upgraded to mastercraft if each side could handle it's own line of ore.

The answer is yes... and it works out pretty well. I had trouble with water throughput, so switched to electric pumps. I think I only need ~11 for 32 mastercraft washers, but 12 fit symmetrically :)

Little tricks:
Used the little left/right inserters to side load half the washers in each line, so 4 load to far side of the belt and 4 load to the close side.
I found the 2x2 chest works really good to cycle the repair tool in/out of the repair plants.

Per minute production screen shows:
Consuming 12k ore to produce 9.6k pure copper.
Consuming/producing 800 toolheads/stone brick
template ore washer
Does Yuoki have a smelter? :) I haven't seen one yet, but it looks like I need a lot smelting capacity when I carry this over to my survival world...

I still need test the contaminated water output to see if maybe I need 2 or more lines to carry it over to pressing plants or like the water avoid the pipe throughput issues and just press it locally -- used void pipes for this test. I don't understand factorio pipes well, so feel like this might be easiest anyway.
stone brick production

Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:11 pm
by YuokiTani
next version will support a smelter, but of course a different way ... because vanilla-code-limitations ... but it counts the result.

2 more simple examples of drillhead-repair with request-chests
pictures
drying water in place is better, you transport the end-products - but depends on how far.
also end-products can transformed into unicomp.