From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Energy production, weapons, handling fluids and much more - excellent graphics.

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Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Post by YuokiTani » Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:59 pm

only for fun let's make a MF-calculation with 100 °C and 500 °C reverse
14.700 / 0.88 / 60 / 850 KJ = 0.3275 mf/tick (100 °C)
14.700 / 0.88 / 60 / 4850 KJ = 0.05474 mf/tick (500 °C)

so it shows how important it is to heat MF to max if possible. every temperature below costs you more MF. you can decide if it's cheaper to produce more mf or heat the mf higher. and a gearbox-circle-flow with lubricant still makes sense.

if this not enough you can use thermal expansion ;) - or corn-oil
14.700 / 0.88 / 60 / 1000 KJ = 0.2784 refrigerant/tick (+50 °C)
14.700 / 0.88 / 60 / 106 KJ = 2.6265 steam/tick (+375 °C)
14.700 / 0.88 / 60 / 130 KJ = 2.1416 corn-oil/tick (+90 °C)

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Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Post by Peppe » Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:22 am

Fatmice wrote:Ah I see what you mean. I was doing some other math...Here's the correct math.

You should always factor in the efficiency. If you look at the prototype, there something called energy_consumption and effectivity. The effective consumption is energy_consumption / effectivity. This is the rate of how much energy you would need to feed it to produce the power equivalent to energy_consumption.

For Yuoki 3.6 MW (3600 KW) boiler (Boiler 3M6/4), you would need 1 if you want to support 7 vanilla steam engines at 100%.

(7*510 KW) / 3600 KW = .991667

(7*510 KW) / 3600 KW / 0.75 = gives overall efficiency = 74.375%

To generate 3570 KW you would have to consume 4760 KW of heat. But since the boiler always work at the rated energy_consumption, you actually need 4800 KW of heat from fuel. The excess is simply stored in the fluid.

Regarding vanilla boiler, the game used to display the energy_consumption in-game, which was the value divided by effectivity, so I confused myself, a problem for having played this game since Factorio 0.6.

So the correct math for the number of Boiler 3M6/4 to the 14.7-Generator-S when using water

Effective Power = 3.2754 units/tick * (85 KJ) * 60 (ticks) * 0.88 = 14700 KW
Actual Need = 3.2754 units/tick * (85 KJ) * 60 (ticks) / 3600 KW = 4.64015 or 5 boilers.
Fluid need = 196.47 units/s => 4 off-shore pumps.

The fluid usage is very high and above the 4 pipe theoretical limit so the rest of my other post still applies.
With that revised math i think this is a fairly decent layout:
alt layout vs old
To reach 4.64 big boilers i used: 4 big boilers, 1 medium boiler (.5), and 2 for symmetry small yuoki boilers (.17 each) ~= 4.85 big boiler capacity.

Get 99.78 degrees in each generator (14.6KW power output displayed)

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Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Post by Fatmice » Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:32 am

99.78 degree is close enough to 100. You're literally missing only 0.258% of maximum power or 38.05 KW per generator. That's like power for 6 or 7 lamps. :)
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Current release: 0.6.6 - Requires 0.14.x
Example build - Requires 0.14.x

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Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Post by Nilaus » Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:53 am

I've played through a rather long game of Yuoki to get a feel for it before a lets play.
My biggest gripe was the ridiculous power need at the end game, which significantly outscales the production capabilities.
Several 150 MW machines (Research Center and Alien Infuser) and even at 80% reduced they are still the dominating part of my energy usage.
How are you solving this? I have huge areas for solar panels, Sol rays and 14.7MW turbines, which seems rather excessive. Ideas are welcome :)
Energy usage.PNG
Energy usage.PNG (278.54 KiB) Viewed 3247 times

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Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Post by Fatmice » Sat Oct 15, 2016 10:43 am

There are many designs. I suggest you look back in the thread and as well as the information thread.
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Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Post by Peppe » Sat Oct 15, 2016 3:51 pm

Nilaus wrote:I've played through a rather long game of Yuoki to get a feel for it before a lets play.
My biggest gripe was the ridiculous power need at the end game, which significantly outscales the production capabilities.
Several 150 MW machines (Research Center and Alien Infuser) and even at 80% reduced they are still the dominating part of my energy usage.
How are you solving this? I have huge areas for solar panels, Sol rays and 14.7MW turbines, which seems rather excessive. Ideas are welcome :)
Energy usage.PNG
Did you miss all the power options in engines? They scale from 50MW-1GW.

Pretty easy to get 250MW from a small 6x overheater/steam turbine setup.

After you scale past or get bored of building those I would look at the Quantrinum Reactor.

Why 20 research centers anyway? You can also get science signs from reputation for much less energy -- 600MW with 80% efficiency vs ~40MW with no efficiency. Or half that with the reputation from tech signs recipe (if you have a source of tech signs). Assuming you actually need 1 science sign a second?

I would build 1-2 research centers to accumulate science signs to build my first turbine/overheater, but I would not make it my primary source of science signs. I don't think it's role is to build a bunch of them. The big power requirement means you need a lot of power infrastructure up before you attempt to use it and after you are able to use it you can build even bigger/better power plants.

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Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Post by YuokiTani » Sat Oct 15, 2016 5:55 pm

Peppe wrote:I don't think it's role is to build a bunch of them. The big power requirement means you need a lot of power infrastructure up before you attempt to use it and after you are able to use it you can build even bigger/better power plants.
correct statement - why research and not use the benefit of science.
as always for this mod and addons - it's not finished ... so its atm a huge gap between low-high-end (1-100 signs) and high-high-end (10K+ signs) ;)

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Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Post by Ratzap » Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:14 pm

How much water does an MF pump from the engines tab produce per second? I'm trying to feed a reactor which needs about 300 per second (5 offshores work or 6 for symmetry) away from a shore line. 8 pumps is only managing to keep it at about 240. Is there a way to make them pump more? Or a better pump for the job?

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Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Post by Peppe » Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:39 pm

Ratzap wrote:How much water does an MF pump from the engines tab produce per second? I'm trying to feed a reactor which needs about 300 per second (5 offshores work or 6 for symmetry) away from a shore line. 8 pumps is only managing to keep it at about 240. Is there a way to make them pump more? Or a better pump for the job?
It says right in the recipe? 50 water per second in a 1 crafting speed machine = just short of a vanilla pump
Industrial Liquid mixer, electric water generator, or burner water generator have a recipe of 120 water every 2 seconds = 60 water/s = same as vanilla pump

You are more likely seeing pipe throughput issues. Are you doing multiple pipe runs?

DaveMcW has good information on vanilla pipe throughput:
viewtopic.php?t=6066

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Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Post by Ratzap » Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:36 pm

Peppe wrote:
Ratzap wrote:How much water does an MF pump from the engines tab produce per second? I'm trying to feed a reactor which needs about 300 per second (5 offshores work or 6 for symmetry) away from a shore line. 8 pumps is only managing to keep it at about 240. Is there a way to make them pump more? Or a better pump for the job?
It says right in the recipe? 50 water per second in a 1 crafting speed machine = just short of a vanilla pump
Industrial Liquid mixer, electric water generator, or burner water generator have a recipe of 120 water every 2 seconds = 60 water/s = same as vanilla pump

You are more likely seeing pipe throughput issues. Are you doing multiple pipe runs?

DaveMcW has good information on vanilla pipe throughput:
viewtopic.php?t=6066
I'm familiar with the fluid mechanics in Factorio. I'm using EC pipe and the runs are short using underground to keep the segments down. The same setup of connections works with a shoreline and offshores but doesn't with MF pumps. If it's nothing as obvious as 'use the other pump' I'll have to continue fiddling.

Edit: I reloaded the save after a break and now it's working fine.

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Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Post by Nilaus » Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:08 pm

Peppe wrote: Did you miss all the power options in engines? They scale from 50MW-1GW.
Yes I did... The hydromechanical didn't make sense to me and I didn't spend the time to figure it out. Now I went back and played with it and can see the point.
The TMFW-Gen 1.1/8.913 -S is 50MW and I do not see any bigger than that. Certainly no 1GW generators.
Peppe wrote: Pretty easy to get 250MW from a small 6x overheater/steam turbine setup.
I am trying to visualise what this setup is, but it doesn't quite make sense to me. 6 overheaters supports a lot of steam turbines that again should feed into some generator to convert it into power. On that note, what is the point of a Gearbox (aside from being a crafting material). I've clicked around with it, but didn't see any purpose.
Peppe wrote: Why 20 research centers anyway? You can also get science signs from reputation for much less energy -- 600MW with 80% efficiency vs ~40MW with no efficiency. Or half that with the reputation from tech signs recipe (if you have a source of tech signs). Assuming you actually need 1 science sign a second?
This was the first way I noticed I could get the science for the Mighty Domination. I later realised that Reputation -> Science was much easier and cheaper.
Thank for the help. It was my first playthrough of Yuoki :)

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Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Post by Peppe » Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:37 pm

Nilaus wrote:
Peppe wrote: Did you miss all the power options in engines? They scale from 50MW-1GW.
Yes I did... The hydromechanical didn't make sense to me and I didn't spend the time to figure it out. Now I went back and played with it and can see the point.
The TMFW-Gen 1.1/8.913 -S is 50MW and I do not see any bigger than that. Certainly no 1GW generators.
Peppe wrote: Pretty easy to get 250MW from a small 6x overheater/steam turbine setup.
I am trying to visualise what this setup is, but it doesn't quite make sense to me. 6 overheaters supports a lot of steam turbines that again should feed into some generator to convert it into power. On that note, what is the point of a Gearbox (aside from being a crafting material). I've clicked around with it, but didn't see any purpose.
Peppe wrote: Why 20 research centers anyway? You can also get science signs from reputation for much less energy -- 600MW with 80% efficiency vs ~40MW with no efficiency. Or half that with the reputation from tech signs recipe (if you have a source of tech signs). Assuming you actually need 1 science sign a second?
This was the first way I noticed I could get the science for the Mighty Domination. I later realised that Reputation -> Science was much easier and cheaper.
Thank for the help. It was my first playthrough of Yuoki :)
Yes there is no single generator that produces a GW for you, but there reasonably sized setups that get generate a GW in a small area.

I guess i undersold it... 6 overheater is closer to 500MW. I build something close to this ~490MW setup in just about every world: Image
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=12216&p=183871#p183871

A few post below that magals shows a GW setup:
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=12216&p=183871#p185015 though I would probably just tile mine...

Gearbox is used for other power setups that don't max out the MF heat/flow. Believe it is required to maximize the output for the quantrium reactor and helps with the liquid/solid fuel engines to improve their output.

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Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Post by Nilaus » Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:15 am

Thanks Peppe

Nice setup of the power plant. I am still not entirely sure how the temperature of the MP affects productivity. I seem to get 100% available power with the stuff coming out of the Quantrinum Reactor.

I have started a Lets Play campaign focused on Yuoki. I am by no means an expert in that mod, but it is fun to try it. Feel free to drop by and critique.

To me it seems like the best way to get into Yuoki is after robots, which is my focus in this campaign. There the number of Yuoki components needed for each sub-component is staggering and turns any well planned factory into spaghetti.
Only the Cimota Reconstructor and the first generators are in my opinion must haves early on.

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Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Post by draziel » Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:30 pm

Here is some of my builds :

Iron & Copper Washing (with bob's adjustable inserters) :
washing station.PNG
Iron & Copper Washing
washing station.PNG (2.58 MiB) Viewed 2997 times
A compact blue chip build
compact mk.PNG
compact chip
compact mk.PNG (644.64 KiB) Viewed 2997 times
Early UCA2 processing unit (note the power switch to indicate and the lamps to indicate the daytime) :
solar powered uca2.PNG
An early UCA2 processing unit
solar powered uca2.PNG (1.09 MiB) Viewed 2997 times
Early game accumulator :
early acc.PNG
early acc.PNG (444 KiB) Viewed 2997 times
Independant Sun powered air cleaner & fuel maker :
sun powered air cleaner.PNG
sun powered air cleaner.PNG (658.9 KiB) Viewed 2997 times
Last edited by draziel on Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Post by draziel » Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:37 pm

UC generation from corn :

Corn to frumital (works without beacon but they had 16 effects number !!) :
frumital.PNG
frumital.PNG (542.78 KiB) Viewed 2997 times
Frumital processing :
furmital processing.PNG
furmital processing.PNG (1.83 MiB) Viewed 2997 times
Outgoing Unicomp (from 24 corn farms & corresponding processing) :
outgoing unicomp.PNG
outgoing unicomp.PNG (2.42 MiB) Viewed 2997 times
And some alien fragment searching :
Compact washing.PNG
Compact washing.PNG (511.93 KiB) Viewed 2997 times
Last edited by draziel on Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Post by draziel » Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:42 pm

About Profit From War :

Profit from war needs tons of engine :
engines.PNG
engines.PNG (1.4 MiB) Viewed 2997 times
And quite a lot of biomass :
biomass.PNG
biomass.PNG (1.36 MiB) Viewed 2997 times
But generate tons of money =)
rich.PNG
rich.PNG (1.74 MiB) Viewed 2997 times

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Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Post by YuokiTani » Sat Oct 29, 2016 11:31 am

Wow, very nice and big buildings. Thank You for sharing with us.
Have you reached a level where you say ... nothing left todo or end of content ?

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Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Post by draziel » Sat Oct 29, 2016 12:47 pm

I think so... I did 3 games with this mod : stone planet, one normal vanilla game+yuoki industries and a bob+angel+yuoki mod...

I think it's not that hard to reach the end game... harder than vanilla but easier than angel+bob mod.

Just drop an ancient monument for some rep, a solar power isolated UCA2 generator, build a laika gate and you get the science sign which unlock the endgame generators.

But what's fun is building design working from nothing and create gigantic design like this farm (omnitron farm)
alien farming.PNG
alien farming.PNG (1.96 MiB) Viewed 2977 times
When you have a steady supply of UCA2, quantrinum, transmuted quantrinum, and instable quantrinum, and reputation, yeah i think i reached the end game.

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Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Post by Nilaus » Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:23 pm

This post is to provide some feedback on the workings of the Yuoki mod after completing my lets play campaign (see signature).
Let me start by saying how much I love this mod. It is brilliantly designed and implemented, so all my improvements/concerns should be seen in the light of me loving the mod and wanting to make it even better :D

* Unicomp at first seems very imbalanced and to some extend it is. It is awesome that Unicomp can be used to even out disparity between raw materials, but it does seem a bit too powerful. Particularly, 1 Unicomp -> 8 Plastic and 1 Unicomp -> 10 Crude Oil. It trivialises the oil industry because it is so much easier to get oil from Unicomp than from oil fields
* My biggest regret is the Ancient Monument that I hope will be completely removed. This is completely dominating all signs creation, because it is much easier to convert Reputation -> Nature/Science/Merchant signs than to get them in their respective ways. Nature signs should come primarily from the DNA beasts. Merchant signs from trading in Profit from War and then some better way to get Science than just a 150MW Research Center.
* Trading through the Laika gate is a really cool idea and I think it works very well in general. The Agronomie components are however not particularly valuable to trade for such as Meat
* Profit from War is really cool. Both the actual weapons and walker technology but also the tradeables. This should be the primary way to get Merchant Signs and an efficient way to get other components such as Unicomp and Transmuted Unicomp. Currently it is redundant because of the Ancient Monument
* Hydromechanical power is a cool idea, but very hard to figure out without going to the forums or spending an inordinate amount of time on trial and error. I don't know what can be done about it, but it is hard to dive into.
* What is the end game? This is a general problem in Factorio, but this mod doesn't really address that. By the time I dive into Agronomie and Profit from War the game is basically over as the materials generated are not needed for anything; it simply adds to the thousands, hundreds of thousands or millions already in storage.
* The railway mod is very nice. I love that the balance aspect of this is primarily the excessive pollution created by the Monuments. The power consumption on these may be a bit prohibitive for going into this instead of regular trains
* Robots are mandatory before diving into Yuoki in earnest. The crafting of the various parts are so complex that it becomes a big spaghetti to make it work, which is completely trivialised by robots
* The way I see this mod is a natural progression: Normal mats -> Yuoki mats -> Profit from War/Agonomie for signs -> signs for end game. This is not really clean at this point, but would be great that was the concept.
* Spelling errors. I have to mention this; there are too many spelling errors in the game. It is ok in the first release, but that should be fixed over time. I do love the humour in the tooltips :)

Keep up the great work. I expect to do another series when 0.15 comes out and then avoiding the mod-breaking Ancient Monuments.

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Re: From Player To Player (Theocrafting, Builds, Blueprints, Tips, Workarounds)

Post by YuokiTani » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:48 am

Thank You for the Feedback - some things will always change and some changes are result of newer factorio-versions. The mod is not in final stage and many things needs tweaked, balanced ... so i appreciate feedback. The current Agronomie is not finished yet, and pfw since over 1 year broken (compare to original concept). So Yuoki is in testing, YI_Engines and PFW -> WIP :)
I will watch your videos to see which edges needs to be smooth ;)

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