[kovarex] [0.16.25] Inserters still don't compress belts 100%

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Avezo
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[kovarex] [0.16.25] Inserters still don't compress belts 100%

Post by Avezo »

Pictures:
Setup overview
Issue
Issue:
Setup I were testing this with compresses output belt properly with splitters, but I rearranged it in this release to have inserters and sideloading do compression instead. Rarely but still, there are gaps in output belt - it seems sideloading at last smelter still leaves gaps.

Additionally, each lane needs a bit over 4 smelters to be fully compressed, so they should easily accept input from all 4, making only last 9th smelter that's supposed to fill the gaps back up, yet at each lane 4th smelter gets backed up despite lane not being compressed yet.

Granted, it might just be issue of inserters going 'out of sync' with gaps when smelters are speeded up that much, not actual compression mechanics, but didn't test it throughtly yet. Fast inserters are surely enough when it comes to througtput alone to unload smelters to an empty belt.

Note: This was tested with creative mode mod, both save file and BP string have entities from it, might need to replace with infinite chests or whatnot if tested without mods.
BP string
Attachments
factorio-current.log
Log
(6.63 KiB) Downloaded 48 times
compression.zip
Save file
(2.47 MiB) Downloaded 49 times

Rseding91
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Re: [0.16.25] Inserters still don't compress belts 100%

Post by Rseding91 »

I haven't looked into this recently but I'm pretty sure that's just because you're trying to drop into underground belts directly and the space where an item is allowed to be put in an underground belt is so small that a gap can come and go without the inserter being able to put into it.

Try re-doing the setup without dropping directly onto underground belts and see if it still happens.
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Avezo
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Re: [0.16.25] Inserters still don't compress belts 100%

Post by Avezo »

Part about underground belts might be true, but even if - *should* it be different compared to putting onto non-underground belts?

Also, issue with last smelter seemingly not sideloading properly still remains.

Avezo
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Re: [0.16.25] Inserters still don't compress belts 100%

Post by Avezo »

Here's BP string for modified setup with inserters unloading to belts instead of underground belts, issues still remain:
BP string
Here's simplified BP string for build with single lane and 4 smelters, single lane should be able to accept output from all and still have some free space, yet 4th smelter gets backed up anyway. While it looks like inserter is working properly, it still forces 'weird' solutions like using double inserters and such if we wanted to achieve full belt compression in builds like former one, which I assume is no longer intended to be needed.
BP string

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Re: [0.16.25] Inserters still don't compress belts 100%

Post by Engimage »

I see these are totally related
viewtopic.php?f=182&t=57998
This is definitely because inserted items are not properly backing up items on a belt shifting the whole belt block instead.
With you using undergrounds it is most likely the belt block includes almost whole line of smelters for a lane causing this weird issue.

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Re: [0.16.25] Inserters still don't compress belts 100%

Post by kovarex »

So, was this resolved by 0.16.26 ?

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Re: [kovarex] [0.16.25] Inserters still don't compress belts 100%

Post by Avezo »

Te whole original 9-smelter setup now does compress belt properly, but issue with 4th smelter staggering on each lane remains. I've rebuild it yet again for better visualisation (pics and attachments below).
Picture
When there are frequent but small free spaces on belt, inserters still have problems with keeping up throughput. While it's maybe not exactly purely compression problem, I believe they should be able to keep throutput the same as when unloading into empty belt, as long as there is enough total free space for them (it is in this case, 4 smelters are not enough to compress full lane).

It can be seen that when inserter pushes back/stops incoming items to unload into small gap, it also pushes back/stops other incoming gaps, I think it would help a lot if only first chain of incoming items was held back and following gaps compressed behind on their own by the belt - that way there would be less frequent small gaps entering inserter unload section, therefore less of them passsing through when inserter swings back. Kinda how it worked before belt optimalisations for a while with sideloading (not sure which patch it was exactly).

Besides, gaps stopping together with items on the moving belt just look weird.
BP string 4-smelters, 1-lane, Requires Creative Mods
Attachments
compression .26.zip
Save .26
(4.04 MiB) Downloaded 45 times
factorio-current.log
Log
(5.39 KiB) Downloaded 37 times

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