[togos] [for 0.17] [0.16.4] "Enemy Bases" settings effect no changes

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[togos] [for 0.17] [0.16.4] "Enemy Bases" settings effect no changes

Post by 5thHorseman » Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:06 pm

When creating a new world, there are 3 options for "Enemy Bases." Frequency, Size, and Richness.

"Frequency" does affect the frequency of bases. Also, those bases are smaller if more frequent, and larger if less frequent.
"Size" does not affect the size of the bases, seemingly at all.
"Richness" does not affect the size of the bases, seemingly at all. - EDIT: This part is by design. "Richness" affects how dangerous the biters are, not the density of spawners within a base.

Below are 2 images, one from "Very Big" and one from "Very Small" bases. I have not labeled them. They are exactly alike. Changing the richness settings would generate the same map.

Image
Image
Last edited by 5thHorseman on Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [16.4] "Enemy Bases" settings effect no changes

Post by sicklag » Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:54 pm

.
Last edited by sicklag on Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [16.4] "Enemy Bases" settings effect no changes

Post by Xuerian » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:48 am

Noticed this too.

Deathworld feels a lot less death-y for those of us who enjoy a good biting.

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Re: [16.4] "Enemy Bases" settings effect no changes

Post by cybernoise » Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:13 am

did u check the box above the biter settings ?

"Enemy Expansion" this must be checked to ensure that enemys spread during the game.

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Re: [16.4] "Enemy Bases" settings effect no changes

Post by 5thHorseman » Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:30 am

cybernoise wrote:did u check the box above the biter settings ?

"Enemy Expansion" this must be checked to ensure that enemys spread during the game.
This has nothing to do with expansion. It has to do with initial placement.
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Re: [16.4] "Enemy Bases" settings effect no changes

Post by Fushigidane » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:40 pm

It seems to me that the size setting only affects the starting area, at least for resources and biters.

Edit: Ok there is actually a difference but it's very small. Difference between "very big" and "very small":
Image

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Re: [16.4] "Enemy Bases" settings effect no changes

Post by rorror » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:39 pm


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Re: [16.4] "Enemy Bases" settings effect no changes

Post by Serenity » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:54 am

Is richness even supposed to do anything with artifacts having been removed?

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Re: [16.4] "Enemy Bases" settings effect no changes

Post by Rseding91 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:34 am

Serenity wrote:Is richness even supposed to do anything with artifacts having been removed?
It changes how quickly bigger biters start to spawn.
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Re: [16.4] "Enemy Bases" settings effect no changes

Post by roman566 » Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:19 pm

This is 0.15:
Image
And this is 0.16:
Image

The zoom level is the same. As you can see, in 0.16 there is hardly anything to fight. That kind of base density can be steamrolled with fully equipped PA MKII. Turret crawl, nukes or new artillery turrets are unnecessary overkills. Which is a huge shame, we were given this new and shiny toy to play with and there is hardly anything to use this artillery gun against :(

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Re: [16.4] "Enemy Bases" settings effect no changes

Post by Jap2.0 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:53 pm

roman566 wrote:This is 0.15:
Image
And this is 0.16:
Image

The zoom level is the same. As you can see, in 0.16 there is hardly anything to fight. That kind of base density can be steamrolled with fully equipped PA MKII. Turret crawl, nukes or new artillery turrets are unnecessary overkills. Which is a huge shame, we were given this new and shiny toy to play with and there is hardly anything to use this artillery gun against :(
Biters naturally expand and enlarge their bases, so they will be more dense later.
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Re: [0.16.4] "Enemy Bases" settings effect no changes

Post by wheybags » Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:54 pm

Just tried, screenshot attached is Normal on the right, Very High on the left, so it seems to be working as intended.
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Screenshot from 2018-01-31 15-46-54.png
Screenshot from 2018-01-31 15-46-54.png (883.22 KiB) Viewed 1846 times

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Re: [wheybags][0.16.4] "Enemy Bases" settings effect no changes

Post by Bilka » Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:46 pm

When I use the same seed, and very small, I get the same image as you have on the right, presumably made with big/very big. Same image when I use big/very big. So I cant reproduce that this is fixed in 0.16.20. Same goes for doing this in 0.16.21.

Not fixed.
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factorio-run_2018-01-31_16-45-20.png
0.16.21, vey small size
factorio-run_2018-01-31_16-45-20.png (701.23 KiB) Viewed 1839 times
factorio_2018-01-31_16-33-14.png
0.16.20, very small size
factorio_2018-01-31_16-33-14.png (693.09 KiB) Viewed 1839 times
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Re: [wheybags][0.16.4] "Enemy Bases" settings effect no changes

Post by wheybags » Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:18 pm

Oh, whoops, I misread and was checking the frequency setting and not size. Not fixed indeed

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Re: [0.16.4] "Enemy Bases" settings effect no changes

Post by TOGoS » Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:02 pm

'Frequency' is confusingly worded, but if higher frequency is making smaller, more frequent bases, then it's working as intended.

Size not having an effect and death world not being deathy are bugs.

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Re: [0.16.4] "Enemy Bases" settings effect no changes

Post by Supercheese » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:18 am

TOGoS wrote:Size not having an effect and death world not being deathy are bugs.
So not having enough bugs is a bug? The bugs are bugged?! :D

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Re: [0.16.4] "Enemy Bases" settings effect no changes

Post by Tomik » Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:42 pm

TOGoS wrote:'Frequency' is confusingly worded, but if higher frequency is making smaller, more frequent bases, then it's working as intended.

Size not having an effect and death world not being deathy are bugs.
You know how 0.15 and 0.16 added Basic, Resource, Terrain and Advanced Settings? Perhaps you should also add Enemy Settings as another tab to make it all less confusing as it is now (biter settings being part of terrain settings).
ImageImage

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Re: [16.4] "Enemy Bases" settings effect no changes

Post by hanli427 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:26 pm

Rseding91 wrote:
Serenity wrote:Is richness even supposed to do anything with artifacts having been removed?
It changes how quickly bigger biters start to spawn.
Isn't that what the evolutions settings under the advanced tab does? Or do you mean the amount of pollution absorbed by the spawners before a biter appears, and time between spawns while attacking the bases? I always assumed the richness setting did nothing and ignored it.

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Re: [togos][0.16.4] "Enemy Bases" settings effect no changes

Post by PacifyerGrey » Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:01 am

Actually what a person expects out of frequency/size?
Frequency should have no effect on size and vice versa. Obviously frequency is how often bases are spawned and size is the number of spawners per base. Richness should effect number of worms/biters per base or whatever.

There should not be any unclear cross-effects between the three!

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