Technology Tree

[metzyn]

I would like to see the technologies arranged into trees similar to that of Civilization to make it easier to find and browse the available, researched, and future technologies. I assume this has not been done because of the existing GUI and focus is mainly on core game elements, but this is my suggestive contribution.

I did a search and did not find this was suggested previously. If it was, then, I do apologize.

[DexterNemrod]

Definitely a good idea ... a better overview what techologies ultimately lead to which other technologies would be a good thing.
Especially if the tech tree is going to grow (which it will, I assume, considering the fact that, for example, there is a whole oil industry that is still going to be implemented)

[kovarex]

The main problem with tree is the mod compatibility.
The tree would have to be generated and it is really not easy to generate nice tree.

[metzyn]

It doesn't have to be a beautiful tree... but some way that the technologies can be more organized like broken down into categories? And maybe have the modding API allow for modders to construct their own trees /categories so that we can organize our additions? At least something other than just a huge grid of dozens of tech.

[MF-]

Some mods might want to get their own tree, but other would definitely look better when included in the main tree..
But how do you do that without collisions?
Generating nice trees is a complex problem. Even theoretically.

[metzyn]

Some mods might want to get their own tree, but other would definitely look better when included in the main tree..
But how do you do that without collisions?
Generating nice trees is a complex problem. Even theoretically.

They can be structured in a similar fashion as how ordering works, "a-b-c"... But it doesn't have to be one giant tree... categories or grouped technologies into lists.

[wrtlprnft]

Generating a picture of a tree is easy… Generating one of a DAG is tricky

I can think of a couple of things one would like to instantly know:

• What do I need to research to get a given technology (including indirect dependencies)?
• Which technology contains the recipe for a given item (mostly things like blue science packs or different kinds of inserters, which are not obvious)?
• What's the cumulative cost of researching a technology?

Maybe answers to some of these can be shown in the UI?

[ssilk]

Just when I hear about complicated rendering of nice trees?
Ever heard about GraphViz or PlantUML?

http://plantuml.sourceforge.net/graphvizdot.html

I used it a lot and I can say it generates most times really nice trees in many formats.

And something else: I meanwhile don't see the need to display a full tree. There is no sense behind it. I see the tree only from the aspect of creating new stuff. For example: I need blue potion. What do I need to build it? Rockets? Ok, let's develop rockets. Oh I need chemistry first. Then lets do that. Now I have all stuff developed. I need whels. What else?

... And so on. What I really needed was a checklist: developed rockets? Ok. Rocket factory? Nope: no wheels-factory!

I lost at some point the overview and built a factory just to see what I need for the different inserters. Not very intuitive.

[kovarex]

Yes, I know about graphiz, I can see it's performance when looking on graphs it generates for the doxygen-generated documentation of the source codes.
I was already considering using it, but it would have to be configurable enough.
I think, that the researches should have specified "depth" in the tree, this would mean how much is the technology advanced, and should also respect the topological sort of the tech tree.

I totally agree with the importance of the graphical representation of the tree.

Anyway, with all the tasks we have now and for the near future, I doubt we will get time to investigate this sooner than 2 months from now ..

[ssilk]

I think, that the researches should have specified "depth" in the tree, this would mean how much is the technology advanced, and should also respect the topological sort of the tech

Yes. I think this would help.

I thought, that when clicking on blue potion I see a tree how to get there. What do I need. Another tree, which show me only what I need to get blue potion, only the information I need. Which research is not done yet, how many factories do I need... And of course it could calculate the number of items I need on each stage to produce one, 10 or 100 items of blue potion and how long this takes.

[DexterNemrod]

Civ (and I think a few other 4X games employing tech trees as well) had it implemented (at least in later versions),
that you could just click on a technology (even if the prerequisites weren´t met) and the game would automatically select all prerequisites for research

[ssilk]

In EVEOnline is a second "carrer planer" (or so, didn't remember quite well, cause I quited it), which shows that also, because in EVE you can research (=learn) thousands of things.

The more I think about it, the more I know, that a pure research-tree like now isn't really needed in this detail, especially when you mind, that mods may have a much bigger research-tree. It's more important to know in which direction the player could go and how much afford it is. If he chooses the direction, I can see it anywhere (e. g. instead of the resarch-info top-right?).

So when you select blue potion as target at the start of the game, you will first see "cole", "iron", "stone", then "burner", "then "axe", and so on until you reach blue potion. Would be a great help.