[0.13] Get train content as signal from train stop

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Optera
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Re: [0.13] Get train content as signal from train stop

Post by Optera » Tue Jul 12, 2016 4:34 am

MindChanger wrote: What if I want to have balanced amount of specified materials across my all wagons? (It is not often situation to customize slots like that, but is possible).
Can't do that just using train content reader.
Unless the train comes into a station already unbalanced it's fairly simple to make it load evenly with some smart loaders from your own thread.
Otherwise empty the whole train and fill from 0.

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Re: [0.13] Get train content as signal from train stop

Post by MindChanger » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:04 am

Optera wrote:
MindChanger wrote: What if I want to have balanced amount of specified materials across my all wagons? (It is not often situation to customize slots like that, but is possible).
Can't do that just using train content reader.
Unless the train comes into a station already unbalanced it's fairly simple to make it load evenly with some smart loaders from your own thread.
Otherwise empty the whole train and fill from 0.
Emptying is always bad way, because of the time needed for it

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Re: [0.13] Get train content as signal from train stop

Post by DevilXD » Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:17 am

Ok, look, this thread is about getting the WHOLE content of a train when it parks at a station. I don't care if they add an option for reading the content of ONE wagon, because it's useless for me, and probably for the devs too. It just isn't worth the coding effort. If they add the content reading option, I'll be all over it. :)

If you want to load a single wagon with certain items, make use of the slot filters, and/or make a contraption with combinators that loads one wagon at a time, but keeps track of the amounts in each wagon. Factorio is about developing solutions to simple problems, like splitting a belt evenly into three, or getting your steam engines to work only when you're low on power, or loading the train with multiple kinds of fuel. The game right now is lacking a simple option to transfer the "Cargo wagon content" displayed when you hover over the locomotive to the train station to be used as circuit signal. That's why I'm here and I'm giving a +1 to this suggestion :)

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Re: [0.13] Get train content as signal from train stop

Post by MindChanger » Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:20 am

DevilXD wrote: If you want to load a single wagon with certain items, make use of the slot filters, and/or make a contraption with combinators that loads one wagon at a time, but keeps track of the amounts in each wagon.
As I said. It is not possible without unloading.

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Re: [0.13] Get train content as signal from train stop

Post by fregate84 » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:13 am

+1, but only to circuit network

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Re: [0.13] Get train content as signal from train stop

Post by ssilk » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:54 am

Well, I thought a bit into this and yes, it makes sense to have also the contents of each single wagon/locos, but in my opinion that is then a completly different suggestion, cause it can be seen totally independent from this one and the game-play value is also not so high as with this one.
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Re: [0.13] Get train content as signal from train stop

Post by Cabanur » Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:46 pm

ssilk wrote:Well, I thought a bit into this and yes, it makes sense to have also the contents of each single wagon/locos, but in my opinion that is then a completly different suggestion, cause it can be seen totally independent from this one and the game-play value is also not so high as with this one.
Is it *so* different? If you want to read the whole train's content, you just wire all rail blocks below the train. Wire mechanics will make the whole wire read the whole train's content, *and* you can read each single wagon if you prefer to do so. I fell like it's a wider mechanic that allows for the specific use OP asks for, and it adds gameplay value to micromanage train contents.

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Re: [0.13] Get train content as signal from train stop

Post by Cabanur » Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:57 pm

MindChanger wrote:As I said. It is not possible without unloading.
There's this other thread where we're talking about being able to tell filter inserters how many items to move per stroke (limit stack size via the circuit network) which would make it possible and would work great with what we're talking about here.

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Re: [0.13] Get train content as signal from train stop

Post by MindChanger » Tue Jul 12, 2016 3:18 pm

Cabanur wrote:
MindChanger wrote:As I said. It is not possible without unloading.
There's this other thread where we're talking about being able to tell filter inserters how many items to move per stroke (limit stack size via the circuit network) which would make it possible and would work great with what we're talking about here.
but first you would have to uload the train, it is not so good way of "solving" issue

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Re: [0.13] Get train content as signal from train stop

Post by siggboy » Tue Jul 12, 2016 3:54 pm

DevilXD wrote:You connect the train station with a red or green wire and set it to 'Get train content' instead of 'Send to train' :)
That would be extremely limiting, because you need both in many realistic scenarios (being able to read from the train and also to write to the train station to trigger a circuit condition).

We need an input and an output port on the train station to fully integrate it into the circuit network. The input allows directing the trains, and the output gives you status information like cargo content, presence of the train at the station, how much fuel it contains etc.

The SmartTrains mod (that allows all this) does have a combinator which acts as the output that you read from, and a lamp which acts as the input that you can use to tell the train where to go (in 0.13 you also have the train station proper as an input for the leave condition).

Being able to connect to the rails in order to read the wagon content -- even from individual wagons -- is not a bad idea either. You could also use that principle for all other sorts of tricks, such as counting the number of wagons, reading fuel content from the locomotive, count the number of locomotives etc; even if there isn't even a station. You could create stops at junctions using rail signals, and then examine how the train looks like that you've just stopped and redirect it appropriately.

I'm all for making the rails connectable and smart. Great idea, now that I think about it (is there a mod that allows it?)
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Re: [0.13] Get train content as signal from train stop

Post by Nexela » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:02 pm

siggboy wrote:
I'm all for making the rails connectable and smart. Great idea, now that I think about it (is there a mod that allows it?)

Very Soon! by very soon I mean as long as it takes me but hopefully not to long

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Re: [0.13] Get train content as signal from train stop

Post by Tinyboss » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:25 pm

Cabanur wrote:Many people have already seen that the problem with this is that the holding cargo of the whole train isn't as useful as a single wagon's cargo.

This is why I think it shouldn't be a train-station thing but a rail block thing. I'd like to be able to connect a rail to the circuit network. The rail should be able to read the contents of the wagon directly above it (either wagon or locomotive). Maybe make it only able to read if train is at full stop.
I think this is the best way. Read contents of any stopped (cargo doors open) rail car on the block.

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Re: [0.13] Get train content as signal from train stop

Post by Cabanur » Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:58 pm

siggboy wrote:presence of the train
This is already possible. You wire a regular rail signal. If the signal is red ("RED" > 0), there's a train there.

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Re: [0.13] Get train content as signal from train stop

Post by MeduSalem » Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:01 pm

siggboy wrote:Being able to connect to the rails in order to read the wagon content -- even from individual wagons -- is not a bad idea either. You could also use that principle for all other sorts of tricks, such as counting the number of wagons, reading fuel content from the locomotive, count the number of locomotives etc; even if there isn't even a station. You could create stops at junctions using rail signals, and then examine how the train looks like that you've just stopped and redirect it appropriately.
I somehow start to think about how it would be similar to DCC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Command_Control) which is a protocol used in model railways... which always read the locomotive decoders' ID and sensors to determine in which block a train currently is and use that to reprogram railway switches for routing a train down a specific path depending on the locomotive/train ID.

In newer implementations of DCC (or competitive standards) the signals can even be routed back through the railtrack itself, meaning no additional wires running all over the place. Just connect the item you want to control to the railtrack and to read and write the signals, pretty much turning the railtrack itself into how a circuit network works in Factorio.

Thinking of it... it might be worth its own suggestion... Like imagine using the rail track network itself to deliver circuit signals... Then rail signals/Chain signals attached to them can work on the signals, but you also could connect entire outposts to that and route the signal back to your base without the nasty manual red/green wiring.



Using the contents of the train could be used to perform something very similar to that... with setting rail signals or switches themselves.

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Re: [0.13] Get train content as signal from train stop

Post by Cabanur » Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:44 pm

MeduSalem wrote:Thinking of it... it might be worth its own suggestion... Like imagine using the rail track network itself to deliver circuit signals... Then rail signals/Chain signals attached to them can work on the signals, but you also could connect entire outposts to that and route the signal back to your base without the nasty manual red/green wiring.
I always run big electric poles along my railway, so just adding a red and/or green wire to the poles would accomplish exactly the same and is already possible in-game.

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Re: [0.13] Get train content as signal from train stop

Post by siggboy » Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:54 pm

Cabanur wrote:
siggboy wrote:presence of the train
This is already possible. You wire a regular rail signal. If the signal is red ("RED" > 0), there's a train there.
You can't detect if the train is actually stopping or stopped at the station, or if it's just driving through. That's a serious limitation if you need to be 100% certain that you're dealing with a train that has just arrived at the station.
Cabanur wrote:I always run big electric poles along my railway, so just adding a red and/or green wire to the poles would accomplish exactly the same and is already possible in-game.
What actually needs to be added to the game is FARL (you can add poles and red/green wire to the tracks automatically with FARL).

Turning the rails into electricity conductors and signal wire is not a bad idea either -- but it might be considered a little too OP.
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Re: [0.13] Get train content as signal from train stop

Post by provet » Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:23 pm

problem solved...ish
Added signs before and after the station
made a combinator clock
wired the two up with all the inserters
Delayed the unloading until the train had stopped and had the chance to decide if it's a good idea or not to stay
added combinator logic to my buffers of ore
hooked up the buffer logic to the station
told the train to only stay if the right buffer signal was sent

Now the train will leave before any unloading occurs unless it's something i want to unload. I also added the logic wires to my outpost, so trains will only leave the mines if they get the right signal as well, double-proofing.
This makes it more predictable to tell if the right ore is on the unloading station or not.. but it's not perfect, if multiple trains with different cargo queues up for unloading it gets a little messy. (if i.e I need both resources at the same time)

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Re: [0.13] Get train content as signal from train stop

Post by Fahrradkette » Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:35 pm

I love the fact how people work around limitations.

I also love playing a game which is being actively developed.

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED everyone :)

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Re: [0.13] Get train content as signal from train stop

Post by chris13524 » Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:26 pm

I'd say this is something that needs to be added, it's a basic feature. At least get the whole train contents from the station, implement that now. Then specific cars with the trails can be added when needed.

+1

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Re: [0.13] Get train content as signal from train stop

Post by gHoST INFERNO » Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:57 pm

Love the game and this would establish a lot new fun stuff for train stations - +1 to this suggestion.

Regarding the discussion around "signal for whole train" vs "signals per wagon", I agree there pros and cons, but I'd be happy with either of the two :-) Also, if "signals per wagon" is somehow implemented, somebody wanting the whole train could simply connect all those wires to get the sum, so wagon-based seems strictly more powerful, but i'd be happy with either solution for the time being :-)

Thanks!

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