Re: Can you add a clock to the game?
Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:27 pm
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FuryoftheStars wrote: ↑Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:24 pmI'm not seeing why you think adding the time is reinventing the wheel, but ok....
That’s not “reinventing the wheel”….shopt wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:02 amFuryoftheStars wrote: ↑Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:24 pmI'm not seeing why you think adding the time is reinventing the wheel, but ok....
Because there's already plenty of other tools which show you the time, and will do a better job at showing it to you how you want. 12 or 24 hour? Seconds or just hours and minutes? Regular text, 7 segment, or clockface? Small and discreet or large and obnoxious? Whatever the devs do, someone will want it done differently.
Doing something again that has already been solved while bringing nothing new to the solution is pretty much the definition of reinventing the wheel.FuryoftheStars wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:28 pmThat’s not “reinventing the wheel”….shopt wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:02 amFuryoftheStars wrote: ↑Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:24 pmI'm not seeing why you think adding the time is reinventing the wheel, but ok....
Because there's already plenty of other tools which show you the time, and will do a better job at showing it to you how you want. 12 or 24 hour? Seconds or just hours and minutes? Regular text, 7 segment, or clockface? Small and discreet or large and obnoxious? Whatever the devs do, someone will want it done differently.
It would not need to break MP determinism in any way, as best I can tell, because it wouldn't impact game state. Either way these are the sorts of statements I'd rather hear from a dev.robot256 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 8:56 pmThe reason they have not done this is because it will break multiplayer completely. Os.time() will be different for every player and cause an instant desync. There are multiple mods that track time according to game ticks. To get real-life time, you will need an overlay widget from the operating systen outside of Factorio.
Requesting them to come up with their own method for tracking time is reinventing the wheel. We’re merely asking for them to display what is already there….
If it was the core game displaying the time, you are correct. However, the UIs that mods can display are all deterministic, meaning we as mod makers cannot do it. That’s what that part of the discussion is about.foamy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:59 pmIt would not need to break MP determinism in any way, as best I can tell, because it wouldn't impact game state. Either way these are the sorts of statements I'd rather hear from a dev.robot256 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 8:56 pmThe reason they have not done this is because it will break multiplayer completely. Os.time() will be different for every player and cause an instant desync. There are multiple mods that track time according to game ticks. To get real-life time, you will need an overlay widget from the operating systen outside of Factorio.
Personally I wouldn't mind displaying my computer's system time while playing, it'd help with avoiding the time travel impacts :v
I think this is where we are talking across each other. To me that is not simple, for all the reasons I posted earlier. What format? What size? Will people be happy with the format and size the devs pick? "Just make it configurable" someone will say, and so it begins. That's assuming adding a new main view UI element is well supported by their GUI code. Given the number of times this has been requested, I suspect the devs would have done it by now if it was as simple as "merely display". Now if doing it in factorio code was the best/only way to do it, that would be one thing. However doing it in factorio code would:
Of course the standard time format of the players language. In doubt just HH:MM.
The standard font size.What size?
Of course, because it’s +1 better than yet.Will people be happy with the format and size the devs pick?
We can discuss that, when it’s there. Currently I think just to another debug-option."Just make it configurable" someone will say, and so it begins.
Ok, you’re the programmer. I say this is a really simple task when implemented as debug option. And I say this hasn’t been added because of the former arguments of “use existing software to display whatever you want in your game screen”. Which is a good argument, but as said, my counter argument is that the effort for my solution is really low.That's assuming adding a new main view UI element is well supported by their GUI code. Given the number of times this has been requested, I suspect the devs would have done it by now if it was as simple as "merely display".
That’s easy. It only needs to display the time. What format does there need to be beyond hour:minute and maybe a 24 vs 12 toggle? And size should match the rest of the UI size.
…would be the realm of mods, if they allow non-deterministic UIs for mods (which would have more usefulness than this).
That’s a problem for the other game. Forgive me, but what does another game matter? It’s not the same devs or even the same players. And frankly, I think most games should have something like this in them.
…these are independent of the game. As such, they have no way of knowing where any of the game UI elements are and will overlay (needing adjusting) for each game, or require a toggle, and the font and format sure as in heck won’t fit the game’s style.shopt wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:49 am* Almost certainly be less configurable and have fewer features than the existing game-independent solutions.
* Offer almost nothing that a game-independent solution doesn't. The only thing I read so far, is that you wouldn't have to install a game-independent solution.
As ssilk said, just make it a barebones debug option, like & where & how show-fps currently is. Nobody is then going to complain about these issues, including not having a British Empire toggle !What format? What size? Will people be happy with the format and size the devs pick? "Just make it configurable" someone will say, and so it begins.
ok, done ... but I don't wanna hear about this again for at least a week or twoBlueTemplar wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:35 pmAs ssilk said, just make it a barebones debug option, like & where & how show-fps currently is. Nobody is then going to complain about these issues, including not having a British Empire toggle !What format? What size? Will people be happy with the format and size the devs pick? "Just make it configurable" someone will say, and so it begins.
My English is not good. I completely rely on computer translation. I can't understand some comments. I only know they are arguing.