Can you add a clock to the game?

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Re: Can you add a clock to the game?

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Re: Can you add a clock to the game?

Post by shopt »

FuryoftheStars wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:24 pm
shopt wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:44 am
I'm not seeing why people want Factorio to reinvent the wheel.
I'm not seeing why you think adding the time is reinventing the wheel, but ok....

Because there's already plenty of other tools which show you the time, and will do a better job at showing it to you how you want. 12 or 24 hour? Seconds or just hours and minutes? Regular text, 7 segment, or clockface? Small and discreet or large and obnoxious? Whatever the devs do, someone will want it done differently.

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Re: Can you add a clock to the game?

Post by ssilk »

Yes, there are several other tools to show the time on screen during the game. But they must’ve extra installed. And it is a really simple task.
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Re: Can you add a clock to the game?

Post by FuryoftheStars »

shopt wrote:
Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:02 am
FuryoftheStars wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:24 pm
shopt wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:44 am
I'm not seeing why people want Factorio to reinvent the wheel.
I'm not seeing why you think adding the time is reinventing the wheel, but ok....

Because there's already plenty of other tools which show you the time, and will do a better job at showing it to you how you want. 12 or 24 hour? Seconds or just hours and minutes? Regular text, 7 segment, or clockface? Small and discreet or large and obnoxious? Whatever the devs do, someone will want it done differently.
That’s not “reinventing the wheel”….

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Re: Can you add a clock to the game?

Post by shopt »

FuryoftheStars wrote:
Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:28 pm
shopt wrote:
Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:02 am
FuryoftheStars wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:24 pm
shopt wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:44 am
I'm not seeing why people want Factorio to reinvent the wheel.
I'm not seeing why you think adding the time is reinventing the wheel, but ok....

Because there's already plenty of other tools which show you the time, and will do a better job at showing it to you how you want. 12 or 24 hour? Seconds or just hours and minutes? Regular text, 7 segment, or clockface? Small and discreet or large and obnoxious? Whatever the devs do, someone will want it done differently.
That’s not “reinventing the wheel”….
Doing something again that has already been solved while bringing nothing new to the solution is pretty much the definition of reinventing the wheel.

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Re: Can you add a clock to the game?

Post by foamy »

robot256 wrote:
Wed Jan 05, 2022 8:56 pm
The reason they have not done this is because it will break multiplayer completely. Os.time() will be different for every player and cause an instant desync. There are multiple mods that track time according to game ticks. To get real-life time, you will need an overlay widget from the operating systen outside of Factorio.
It would not need to break MP determinism in any way, as best I can tell, because it wouldn't impact game state. Either way these are the sorts of statements I'd rather hear from a dev.

Personally I wouldn't mind displaying my computer's system time while playing, it'd help with avoiding the time travel impacts :v

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Re: Can you add a clock to the game?

Post by FuryoftheStars »

shopt wrote:
Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:28 pm
FuryoftheStars wrote:
Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:28 pm

That’s not “reinventing the wheel”….
Doing something again that has already been solved while bringing nothing new to the solution is pretty much the definition of reinventing the wheel.
Requesting them to come up with their own method for tracking time is reinventing the wheel. We’re merely asking for them to display what is already there….
foamy wrote:
Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:59 pm
robot256 wrote:
Wed Jan 05, 2022 8:56 pm
The reason they have not done this is because it will break multiplayer completely. Os.time() will be different for every player and cause an instant desync. There are multiple mods that track time according to game ticks. To get real-life time, you will need an overlay widget from the operating systen outside of Factorio.
It would not need to break MP determinism in any way, as best I can tell, because it wouldn't impact game state. Either way these are the sorts of statements I'd rather hear from a dev.

Personally I wouldn't mind displaying my computer's system time while playing, it'd help with avoiding the time travel impacts :v
If it was the core game displaying the time, you are correct. However, the UIs that mods can display are all deterministic, meaning we as mod makers cannot do it. That’s what that part of the discussion is about.

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Re: Can you add a clock to the game?

Post by shopt »

FuryoftheStars wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:19 am
... merely asking for them to display ...
I think this is where we are talking across each other. To me that is not simple, for all the reasons I posted earlier. What format? What size? Will people be happy with the format and size the devs pick? "Just make it configurable" someone will say, and so it begins. That's assuming adding a new main view UI element is well supported by their GUI code. Given the number of times this has been requested, I suspect the devs would have done it by now if it was as simple as "merely display". Now if doing it in factorio code was the best/only way to do it, that would be one thing. However doing it in factorio code would:

* Only work for factorio. Players would need to find another solution for the next game they sink time into. Or keep making the same feature request for each new game.
* Almost certainly be less configurable and have fewer features than the existing game-independent solutions.
* Offer almost nothing that a game-independent solution doesn't. The only thing I read so far, is that you wouldn't have to install a game-independent solution. To troll slightly and paraphrase one of the pinned posts by a moderator: "Don't like mods other programs, your problem."

Regarding adding it to the modding API, that is sensible assuming all the (potential) determinism issues aren't a showstopper. Let the modders spend time on a factorio specific clock widget if they want to.

Anyway, this seems like we are well and truly stuck in the weeds at this point and arguing over semantics, I'll walk away from the discussion about what counts as reinventing the wheel.

I would recommend to anyone asking for the devs to add this to look for a game-independent solution which meets their needs so they don't have to bug the devs of Satisfactory, DSP, Timberborn, Captain of Industry, etc., etc.

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Re: Can you add a clock to the game?

Post by ssilk »

shopt wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:49 am
What format?
Of course the standard time format of the players language. In doubt just HH:MM. :D
What size?
The standard font size.
Will people be happy with the format and size the devs pick?
Of course, because it’s +1 better than yet.
"Just make it configurable" someone will say, and so it begins.
We can discuss that, when it’s there. Currently I think just to another debug-option.
That's assuming adding a new main view UI element is well supported by their GUI code. Given the number of times this has been requested, I suspect the devs would have done it by now if it was as simple as "merely display".
Ok, you’re the programmer. :) I say this is a really simple task when implemented as debug option. And I say this hasn’t been added because of the former arguments of “use existing software to display whatever you want in your game screen”. Which is a good argument, but as said, my counter argument is that the effort for my solution is really low.
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Re: Can you add a clock to the game?

Post by FuryoftheStars »

shopt wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:49 am
What format? What size?
That’s easy. It only needs to display the time. What format does there need to be beyond hour:minute and maybe a 24 vs 12 toggle? And size should match the rest of the UI size.

Anything more…
shopt wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:49 am
Will people be happy with the format and size the devs pick? "Just make it configurable" someone will say, and so it begins.
…would be the realm of mods, if they allow non-deterministic UIs for mods (which would have more usefulness than this).
shopt wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:49 am
* Only work for factorio. Players would need to find another solution for the next game they sink time into. Or keep making the same feature request for each new game.
That’s a problem for the other game. Forgive me, but what does another game matter? It’s not the same devs or even the same players. And frankly, I think most games should have something like this in them.

Why? Because…
shopt wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:49 am
* Almost certainly be less configurable and have fewer features than the existing game-independent solutions.
* Offer almost nothing that a game-independent solution doesn't. The only thing I read so far, is that you wouldn't have to install a game-independent solution.
…these are independent of the game. As such, they have no way of knowing where any of the game UI elements are and will overlay (needing adjusting) for each game, or require a toggle, and the font and format sure as in heck won’t fit the game’s style.

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Re: Can you add a clock to the game?

Post by BlueTemplar »

What format? What size? Will people be happy with the format and size the devs pick? "Just make it configurable" someone will say, and so it begins.
As ssilk said, just make it a barebones debug option, like & where & how show-fps currently is. Nobody is then going to complain about these issues, including not having a British Empire toggle ! :D
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Re: Can you add a clock to the game?

Post by Defective_Soul »

+1
Will be realy nice to see RimWorld-like or other gamees real (machine+timezone) time somwhere in game UI

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Re: Can you add a clock to the game?

Post by sdgmlj »

I searched all MODS and couldn't find one that can display the system time. They show the game time, which is of no use to me.

If I could find such a mod, I wouldn't make this suggestion.

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Re: Can you add a clock to the game?

Post by ssilk »

Did you read this thread? It explains why there is no mod and will be no mod ever.
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Re: Can you add a clock to the game?

Post by posila »

BlueTemplar wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:35 pm
What format? What size? Will people be happy with the format and size the devs pick? "Just make it configurable" someone will say, and so it begins.
As ssilk said, just make it a barebones debug option, like & where & how show-fps currently is. Nobody is then going to complain about these issues, including not having a British Empire toggle ! :D
ok, done ... but I don't wanna hear about this again for at least a week or two :P

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Re: Can you add a clock to the game?

Post by sdgmlj »

ssilk wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:27 am
Did you read this thread? It explains why there is no mod and will be no mod ever.
My English is not good. I completely rely on computer translation. I can't understand some comments. I only know they are arguing.

The purple name just now means: are you going to add this feature?

If so, that would be great.

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Re: Can you add a clock to the game?

Post by Koub »

sdgmlj wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:51 am
The purple name just now means: are you going to add this feature?
2022-01-18 21_49_58-Factorio 1.1.52.jpg
2022-01-18 21_49_58-Factorio 1.1.52.jpg (26.19 KiB) Viewed 1162 times
[Koub] Moving to Implemented.
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.


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Re: Can you add a clock to the game?

Post by sdgmlj »

Koub wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:50 pm
sdgmlj wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:51 am
The purple name just now means: are you going to add this feature?
2022-01-18 21_49_58-Factorio 1.1.52.jpg

[Koub] Moving to Implemented.
:D

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Re: Can you add a clock to the game?

Post by Pi-C »

Now if only there was a way to display the time on a black background so it stands out some more, and to include the date/day of week as well, so that we can see at a glance whether the weekend is over yet, and of course an option to show the time as ticks since 00:00:00 01/01/1970 would be great as well. :mrgreen:

Oh, by the way, did you even realize I've just been kidding? Seriously now: I really like the new feature, it's nice, simple, unobtrusive, and useful. Thanks a lot to posila and all the people who pestered him into implementing it!
A good mod deserves a good changelog. Here's a tutorial (WIP) about Factorio's way too strict changelog syntax!

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