Using accumulators for solar power

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suaig
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Using accumulators for solar power

Post by suaig »

Right now accumulators charge up as long as there is spare energy and discharge when there is no other energy. But If I'm using solar panels as a replacement for steam engines, I want them to charge up during the day and discharge fully before the steam engines need to be used. There should be some way to decide the priority of each type of energy source. Even better would be the ability to set the priority for each building, that way you could have some accumulators used for providing solar power at night and some as a backup for the extra energy laser turrets might need or whatever.

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Re: Using accumulators for solar power

Post by MF- »

I second this request.
There used to be a nice trick in 0.4.x, but it does not work in the last version (It is caused by a new feature - in/out energy flow limits).
I don't really have a use case for the detailed setup. Everything that does at least as much as the 0.4 capacitor-trick would be appreciated.

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Re: Using accumulators for solar power

Post by ssilk »

I would prefer a setup like in real life - cause in real life, the accus would behave like the current state: in an electric network a capacitor unloads only if the voltage lowers. The same is here in factorio.

If they work differently, it will not be possible to include more such stuff! I think for example to a nuclear power plant, which cannot be switched on/off so fast as a steam engine. If you have nuclear p. p., they need to be switched on much earlier than steam engines (I hope they will include this behavior!). So, when you implement the suggested algorithm above, it will not work, when you use nuclear p.p..

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To handle that for any case of situation I think for a relay-station, which works as a relay (what else :) ), it's just a big power-on-off knob. And a sensor, which can detect the state of the electric network he is switched into and signals the relais if the situation happens or not.

Code: Select all

     main-network                 ------- relay ----------       steam engines
                sensor   ------------------/             <signals relay
So when the relay is switched on, it connects the steam engines to the main-network (which inlcudes the solar-cells and accus). So the steam engines will work only, if really needed. This will work with nuclear p. p. also, but you need a second sensor, which is configured so that it switches in much earlier.

...

I can think for two kinds of sensor types which can detect, when to raise the signal.
- a sensor, which registers power shortage and if the shortage is longer than X seconds he will raise signal
- a sensor, which checks the power-state of the accumulators and if under X capcity it will raise.

Others are thinkable:
- sensor checks the difference of AVAILABLE vs. NEEDED power in 2 networks and gives signal, when needed and available is high (or some other logic combinations).
- a light-sensor, checks how much light is and so you can switch off or on unneeded (or needed) stuff.
- a radar-sensor, checks if creepers on the way and can switch on/off things
- ....

Off course you may need logic gates or time-switches and other stuff, which helps to make a more complicated switch, but this goes much too deep. Just one sensor and a relay is needed.
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Re: Using accumulators for solar power

Post by MF- »

Sounds really good to me.
You will likely have the circuit-network technology before you start looking into going solar.

You would have to disconnect the caps as you switch to the aux power, though.
(You usually don't want aux power to charge the caps)
No problem, it's just 'nother relay

Perhaps a current sensor (so we can measure how much energy is the aux source providing)?

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Re: Using accumulators for solar power

Post by Holy-Fire »

What I'd like to have is the ability to set a "reserve charge level" from 0% to 100%.

If the accumulator's charge level is higher than the reserve, it will be preferred over steam. If it is lower, steam will be preferred.

This way, you can avoid steam if you have enough solar output and accumulator capacity, while still keeping some charge for emergencies / attacks.

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Re: Using accumulators for solar power

Post by ssilk »

Very good idea! Like what is planned for the miners: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... =959#p6716

The rest: I think this is already so and if not it makes sense.
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Re: Using accumulators for solar power

Post by ssilk »

Holy-Fire wrote:What I'd like to have is the ability to set a "reserve charge level" from 0% to 100%.

If the accumulator's charge level is higher than the reserve, it will be preferred over steam. If it is lower, steam will be preferred.

This way, you can avoid steam if you have enough solar output and accumulator capacity, while still keeping some charge for emergencies / attacks.
This is principally the right idea, but works only for the setup "steam vs. solar". What is, if you want to use the load to switch the power for research off in the night? See also this thread: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... =976#p6849
The accus can feed a second network and this is lower priorized, which can be used for some effect. And I see much, much more usages for power-control, because even in standby stuff needs power. Or for example it makes sense to put coal mining and steam factory into one network to ensure that this gets power, even, if everything else fails. How cool would be this: A belt factory which creates exactly 200 belts of each type and it does this equally, 1 normal, fast and very fast belt 200 times. The cool thing is, when it is finished, it waits, until the last belt is stored into a chest and then the hole sub-factory is switched off, until I take out some of the belts from the chest.

I think this "switching" is not part of the accumulator, because the calculation about what's currently needed cannot be fitted with one simple type of logic. A more cascaded setup makes more sense. Or do you want to right-klick through 200+ accumulators to change this setting? :)
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Re: Using accumulators for solar power

Post by MF- »

I would also support a separate versatile device doing the switching instead of bundling and locking the feature into one particular device.

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Re: Using accumulators for solar power

Post by MF- »

Any progress on the "green" energy?

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Re: Using accumulators for solar power

Post by n9103 »

make some small changes to the entity files.
Set steam engines as tertiary priority, and accums as secondary, leaving solar as primary.
If needed, I could even upload the files with changes if desired, but the changes are too minor to do beforehand at the moment.

Perhaps I should make a mod of this change? would be my first, but would likely end up unused after long as I'm sure this will be coded by the devs once I post it.
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Re: Using accumulators for solar power

Post by MF- »

Hmm.. I guess that could work well enough.
It'll mean that my laser defense won't be able to use capacitors when on coal power, but since that's not supposed to happen often....
....I guess this quick & dirty way could be enough.

Thanks for the tip.

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Re: Using accumulators for solar power

Post by zer0t3ch »

suaig wrote:There should be some way to decide the priority of each type of energy source.
+1
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Re: Using accumulators for solar power

Post by ssilk »

Hm. I would extend it: for every energy-network the source and destination can be priorized. Which doesn't mean, that all that functionality is available for the player. To define network and store that information permanent (if a network is divided and refitted, which would be the right rules?) we need some device - a "network controller" - which is only available once per network.
And a device to couple two networks and which transfers energy from one net to the other depending on the rules in that network controller.
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