Packagers

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metalim
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Packagers

Post by metalim »

Sup!

Scenario: your belts are full, you want to add more throughput in very restricted space. And you've upgraded to speedy belts already.

Solution 1: packagers to pack items into crates, with variable pre-set number of items to pack into single package. Side bonus: you can portion your resources for crafters.

Super-solution 2: packagers pack different types of items into single crate. Load that crate into crafter to get 1 output item. Totally saves space and solves balancing issues. Many belts -> 1 packager -> 1 belt -> lots of crafters (or research labs).

Lem'me know what do you think.

FishSandwich
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Re: Packagers

Post by FishSandwich »

So, what's the difference between this and using an inserter and chest combo?

Nemoricus
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Re: Packagers

Post by Nemoricus »

Maybe if these crates were items you could put on the conveyor belts, there would be something to it.

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Re: Packagers

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Garm
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Re: Packagers

Post by Garm »

I am against it.

Space restriction is fundamental challenge of this game, together with time constrains. Resource availability not so much.


This suggestion only makes end-game easier. Which isnt needed.

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ssilk
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Re: Packagers

Post by ssilk »

I'm using this mod currently for my monster gigantic factory. :) I mentioned that also earlier: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/sea ... mit=Search

This packaging (or boxing) changes everything. For example it suddenly makes sense to produce the copper wire extra and move it on belts to the assemblies.
It is only useful if you really have that much stuff, but then it is like a release. Your belts are empty again.

My ore smelting factory has about 1000 furnaces and THAT is able to fill one fast belt as output - more or less. I counted the throughput to about 16,000 copper (complex, cause packing and unpacking counts twice in the the production stats, cause you produce copper ore, pack it and then unpack it, which produces the copper ore again) ore per minute, which is also about the maximum throughput for 1000 furnaces, but a fast belt can transport then about 17-18,000 items per minute. Enough space left.

But the strategy is completely different. You need to unpack/pack all the time. You need one assembly to pack the items into a box.

For example packing iron ore in a box: If I put 9 chests around the assembly to feed that (7 requester for input of iron ore, one for the input of the boxes and one for the output of the filled boxes) and that is barely able to fill the assembly (7 inserters can fill it with 10.5 items per second).

You need more space, cause all of this unpacking/packing. And you need the boxes! This is hard, cause the boxes are - expensive. You cannot just store much items with boxes, cause storing it like so is too expensive. That was really new for me, besides other things. Really new is also the handling of the full and empty boxes. This needs to be organized and you need to take care really. One full chest of boxes filled with ores is 20,000 iron! Not 4800. Handling stuff needs much more care, cause if you make a mistake you loose really much at once.

@Garm: You definitely need more space to built then. And space is no issue in Factorio! And end-game needs to be easier. No, not easier, it doesn't make things easier, it makes them faster!

I'm not sure yet, if it is really useful. Needs some more playing with it. But till now I'm sure, this is one way, we should really try.
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metalim
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Re: Packagers

Post by metalim »

Mod is nice, but the unboxing thing really bothers me. That's why I'd vote to have crafters accept packages (/boxes/containers) of different items. How much effort do you need to open a package IRL, compared to package items? To pack things (IRL) you need box, tape, knowledge what to put inside, how to make it fit, etc. But to unpack you just need some knife, and can do it anywhere.

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Re: Packagers

Post by ssilk »

Good point. Realistically you pack machines with boxes or packs. I prefer "boxes".
It would work: Pack 100 iron in a box. Put the box into a furnace and 100 iron plates will be produced.

Let's see that systematically:
1. Only packing possible: Pack things in. Can be used in furnace, assembly etc without special unpacking. Rest works as before.
2. Packing things in. Packed things cannot be used, must be pack out first.
3. A mixture of both: Sometimes packed stuff can be used directly, sometimes it must be packed out first.

And there is the question of the box:
A) The box, the package is free, it is "suddenly in a box". Think to bananas on a stem.
B) The box must be produced first. This splits into:
B.a) The box is produced once and when unpacked the box "disapears", this means also, that the box is quite cheap. Think to Tetrapck for Milk.
B.b) The box doesn't disapear and the box must be returned, to avoid "overfilling". The costs of the box depends eventually on what is packed.

These are the options and maybe I've forgotten one.

My problem with this suggestion is, that you pick only option 1A. But as I tried to explain above: Other options enable a completely new gameplay.
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metalim
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Re: Packagers

Post by metalim »

1Ba seems ok as well. There could be different materials used to make different packs (wood, iron, oil byproduct for example), so you would not run out of them, as you cut the forest.

Also, 1 thing I'm looking for: if things are compact, 1 belt could contain LOTS of different packs, as belt's real estate is not an issue anymore. Run 1 belt through your factory and place both resources and products back on it. Sounds good?

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Re: Packagers

Post by ssilk »

This is one of the Ideas, which seem to work even with the Boxing Mod. I constructed nifty stuff to guarantee a mix of items on the belts and it works! But I tested this only for the items in the boxing mod.

This is one of the issues, that needs to be implemented first: special assemblies and furnaces, that can handle this packing and/or unpacking without generating hundreds of new recipes.
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