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Currently I see absolutely no advantage to using trains over belts or saucers.

One thing that might at least make trains better than saucer would be to have Turrets on them. You load a turret car, or maybe even any car full of bullets. And then it defends the train from creepers.

Another idea would be to have electrified train tracks. They can be used by trains ( maybe even without the train using coal) and they conduct electricity.
With that Trains do have the absolute advantage that you only need to place one set of tracks instead of several belts and a power line.

I don't think that my trains have enough surface to house enough turrets to kill all the creepers.

Electrified rails and electric locomotives would be neat.

tonberrytoby wrote:... Another idea would be to have electrified train tracks. They can be used by trains ( maybe even without the train using coal) and they conduct electricity.
With that Trains do have the absolute advantage that you only need to place one set of tracks instead of several belts and a power line.

This could require a transformer to step up the voltage to reduce loss over long tracks, and then anywhere you can build another transformer that will step down the voltage to power inserters and such.

Electrified tracks should act exactly like simple power lines.

ssilk wrote:Electrified tracks should act exactly like simple power lines.

That is what I meant.

I was definitely a little bit surprised about the Diesel Locomotive being (the only locomotive) in the game, specially considering the absence of oil or coal liquefaction plants.

Considering our early means of generating power, I would have guessed that our first locomotive should be a steam-electric motive (i.e. a self powered electric locomotive that generates power via a steam engine) followed by electrified railtracks with pure electric locomotives

DexterNemrod wrote:I was definitely a little bit surprised about the Diesel Locomotive being (the only locomotive) in the game, specially considering the absence of oil or coal liquefaction plants.

Considering our early means of generating power, I would have guessed that our first locomotive should be a steam-electric motive (i.e. a self powered electric locomotive that generates power via a steam engine) followed by electrified railtracks with pure electric locomotives

Well, we can't do everything at the same moment, so for now, it uses coal, once we get time to create the oil inudstry part of the game, we can change the power source

Tracks acting like powerlines just for electric locomotives would be great!

Edit: Upgraded tracks. Default tracks act like now, electrified tracks act like powerlines for electric locomotives only

tonberrytoby wrote:

ssilk wrote:Electrified tracks should act exactly like simple power lines.

That is what I meant.

I meant especially, that electrified tracks could be used instead of extra powerlines to far away places.

ssilk wrote: I meant especially, that electrified tracks could be used instead of extra powerlines to far away places.

Hmm.. They don't do that in real-life. Is it just because the tracks and power wiring rarely go in parallel?

Or perhaps that IRL electricity is a 3-phrase system, while the railway has only one phase or even no phase at all (Direct Current) in some areas.
They have pretty large substations next to the track, converting the electricity.
Afaik tracks don't even have consistent voltages and AC/DC are mixed up.
Power poles and tracks are owned by different companies.
The separation also improves resiliency. AFAIK When an area loses power, trains still run, because another substation takes over (or something).

I don't like to use rails as energy distribution system. Electric trains are ok. But energy transported by electric rails should be used only by trains. That idea make big electric poles less useful.

andzoak wrote:I don't like to use rails as energy distribution system. Electric trains are ok. But energy transported by electric rails should be used only by trains. That idea make big electric poles less useful.

Same here.. It would look quite weird and/or wrong.

Yeah, the more think about it, the more it is weird.

I also think, that power lines should lose energy with the length. I mean very long lines. Or maybe the size (= number of poles) of a network should have a limit? A network cannot have e. g. More than 500 poles. To connect 2 networks, you net a transformer station. Etc.

ssilk wrote:Yeah, the more think about it, the more it is weird.

I also think, that power lines should lose energy with the length. I mean very long lines. Or maybe the size (= number of poles) of a network should have a limit? A network cannot have e. g. More than 500 poles. To connect 2 networks, you net a transformer station. Etc.

I like this idea in theory. I wouldn't want to establish a hard-limit of X-number of poles, but the concept of having some kind of limiter would be cool.

You guys get pretty technical and I don't know shit about all this for real life... so I feel like my IQ is 10 points lower than it is when I read some of your guys' posts.

Yes, power lines should loose power.

The problem is, that the standard maximum-flow-in-network algorithms have way too big complexity (it would take too long to compute).
When I was looking at this subject last time, I stumbled across some article about the optimisation of the flow-in-network specialised on electricity (non-orientated) that should be faster.
I'm pretty sure, that implementing the algorithm the way that it wouldn't slow down the game for huge factories would be quite challenging and would require time.

But yes, once we do it, lot of new possibilities would open.
Different types of cables with different power loses, different voltages, trafo stations ... would be nice

The simplest is just limiting the size of the network. Players need either to optimize the network (replace with bigger poles) or build trafos. And I also think for the algorithm itself that it would be easier to optimize it, when you limit the size of the network.

Take also my previous post to connect all factories as they where poles so that they can connect the nearby inserters and other factories. The ARE poles. So they count as poles. This makes totally sense (from the view of a programmer), that you cannot built an unlimited sized factory in one network.

To the trafo-station I have some more ideas, like control the flow of energy. Think of switch on/off hole factories. Or keep a condenser array fully loaded until really bad stuff happens. Or allow energy-flow only in one direction.......

Here is the solution: Create an electronic locomotive ... not with electric rails... more like the accumulators
The locomotive can charge on the stations. Full charged the locomotive should drive ~ 1-2 min

I really thing this is a great ider which dosn't need tonns of work... (i hope)

And cal this locomotive the "Cookie-loc" (just kidding)

But dont deleat the coal loc... its my "Cake-loc" and i like my Cake-loc

Apocalypse wrote:Here is the solution: Create an electronic locomotive ... not with electric rails... more like the accumulators
The locomotive can charge on the stations. Full charged the locomotive should drive ~ 1-2 min

That's interesting idea. It does not exist in the reality, but seem to be real. There is no written rule, that everything what exist in the game should exist in the real world.

I give +1

Arakasi wrote:

Apocalypse wrote:Here is the solution: Create an electronic locomotive ... not with electric rails... more like the accumulators
The locomotive can charge on the stations. Full charged the locomotive should drive ~ 1-2 min

That's interesting idea. It does not exist in the reality, but seem to be real. There is no written rule, that everything what exist in the game should exist in the real world.

I give +1

I heard that locomotives take at least 10MW of electricity.
We don't have such accumulators yet. Our capacitors - given their size, we might fit a whopping 1/2 of a capacitor in the tiny locomotive, might provide it energy for 1-2miliseconds.

Can 1/2 of our current capacitor drive a lamp for 1-2 minutes?

At least in concept something similar exists for Steam locomotives.

So called Fireless locomotives.
They wouldn´t produce the steam (to power them) themselves, but instead would carry some kind of "Steam Accumulator" with them, that stored Steam.
Every now and then they would have to drive to a Steam outlet, to tank new steam to power them.

Locomotives like these usually were (and occasionally still are) used in factory complexees (ideally some of them who would be able to provide boiling water/steam as part of their normal production process
(like our Factorio-factories for example would, with our 100°C water to power our power producing steam engines)