Change rail block colors for not used, different colors

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eradicator
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Re: Change rail block colors for not used, different colors

Post by eradicator »

MakeItGraphic wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:32 am
this will never implemented HOWEVER a mod can most likely make this change and have it configurable to your own liking.
This is however the "Ideas and Suggestions" subforum which is dedicated to ideas that are supposed to go into vanilla. If @OP wanted a simple mod because they realized that their taste is different from everyone elses they should've gone to the Ideas and Requests for mods subforum. And especially when you're new to a forum you should very carefully read all the descriptions.
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Re: Change rail block colors for not used, different colors

Post by AkQ »

eradicator wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:19 am
MakeItGraphic wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:32 am
this will never implemented HOWEVER a mod can most likely make this change and have it configurable to your own liking.
This is however the "Ideas and Suggestions" subforum which is dedicated to ideas that are supposed to go into vanilla. If @OP wanted a simple mod because they realized that their taste is different from everyone elses they should've gone to the Ideas and Requests for mods subforum. And especially when you're new to a forum you should very carefully read all the descriptions.
I don't need a mod. I already know the difference between blocks and signals so I'm not mixing them up myself, because I studied them. I had to study them.

I'm merely suggesting to change the way of identifying the blocks, because they are now using the same colors are the signals next to them, which is confusing for no reason for new players. I don't think it's a hard to implement, and i also don't think it would matter to the people who are used to the colors already. However it would help new players to identify the difference between blocks and signals, since they wouldn't share colors anymore.

Ps. i don't get it why there is so much mockery and belittling here. I took my time to make a valid suggestion to improve the game, with valid arguments. What did i do wrong here?

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Re: Change rail block colors for not used, different colors

Post by Deadlock989 »

AkQ wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:13 am
which is confusing for no reason for new players me and some people I know
Fixed that for you.
AkQ wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:13 am
I don't think it's a hard to implement
It is, because there aren't enough colours. You need at least four distinctive colours, because four is the magic number. (The game actually defines six, with the fifth and sixth being black and grey, but I've never seen those used in any rail configuration and I feel like it's not actually possible to see them.) If you take away all the reds, all the yellows, all the greens, and all the blues, you are left with purples and various scales of grey. I don't think I can rephrase this a fifth time in a way that you will understand.
AkQ wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:13 am
i also don't think it would matter to the people who are used to the colors already
I don't see how you could possibly be in a position to make that assertion. Myself, I'm all about bold primaries.

If you want rail blocks to be shown with a tiny subset of the colour wheel because it's too much effort for you to learn the difference between a signal colour and a block visualisation, you can mod the game to use a tiny subset of the colour wheel. Knock yourself out. I think it would totally suck, and I even went to the trouble of illustrating how much it would suck on the previous page, but it's your choice if you really want it to suck that badly.
AkQ wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:13 am
Ps. i don't get it why there is so much mockery and belittling here. I took my time to make a valid suggestion to improve the game, with valid arguments. What did i do wrong here?
It's just a dumb idea. Don't worry, we've all been there.

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Re: Change rail block colors for not used, different colors

Post by Jap2.0 »

Deadlock989 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:24 am
(The game actually defines six, with the fifth and sixth being black and grey, but I've never seen those used in any rail configuration and I feel like it's not actually possible to see them.)
Image
Is this cheating?
(Taken from FFF 198, context on the history of the implementation of this and the four-color theorem there and in FFF 201; 201 seems to imply that seeing the fifth is possible, though I can't recall seeing it either)

If you take away all the reds, all the yellows, all the greens, and all the blues, you are left with purples and various scales of grey. I don't think I can rephrase this a fifth time in a way that you will understand.
I think that taking out every possible shade of red, orange, and yellow because of red and yellow being colors of signals is a bit harsh. We have purples, orange, greys (or grays), and we could probably play with lightness and some other in-between shades of colors a bit too (fit in a nice teal or something). Granted, I'm not saying it'd look good...
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Re: Change rail block colors for not used, different colors

Post by AkQ »

Deadlock989 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:24 am
AkQ wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:13 am
which is confusing for no reason for new players me and some people I know
Fixed that for you.
Deadlock989 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:24 am
AkQ wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:13 am
i also don't think it would matter to the people who are used to the colors already
I don't see how you could possibly be in a position to make that assertion.
Deadlock989 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:24 am
It's just a dumb idea. Don't worry, we've all been there.
Yes, I can finally see your logic. It's flawless. With all the arguments based on your own opinions.
No worries. I'm definitely not worried about your comments.

The whole idea of my suggestion came from Day9 twitch-stream and from his fanbase.
He started to stream Factorio and he was struggling with the signals and blocks due to the colors being conflated.
I like the game and I wanted to show my support by writing his idea to suggestions.

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Re: Change rail block colors for not used, different colors

Post by 5thHorseman »

Disclaimer: I don't think your idea is dumb and I think the reaction to it is surprisingly negative. I suspect it's so because you are championing it so strongly.

That said, I don't think it's all that necessary.
AkQ wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:50 am
The whole idea of my suggestion came from Day9 twitch-stream and from his fanbase.
He started to stream Factorio and he was struggling with the signals and blocks due to the colors being conflated.
I like the game and I wanted to show my support by writing his idea to suggestions.
Twitch streamers are FAMOUSLY bad at understanding any game mechanic that doesn't involve shooting something. And the 1/10th of chat that actually knows what's going on is ALWAYS drowned out by the 9/10th that think they know but don't, don't care but want to talk anyway, or are trolling. I pretty much can't watch ANYBODY play Factorio (or many other games with a learning curve) unless they show in the first couple minutes that they are already good at the game.
"So you completed the game with a spaghetti factory? Well I pocket crafted a rocket and threw it into space with my bare hands!"

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Re: Change rail block colors for not used, different colors

Post by Deadlock989 »

AkQ wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:50 am

The whole idea of my suggestion came from Day9 twitch-stream and from his fanbase.
That explains everything.

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Re: Change rail block colors for not used, different colors

Post by Deadlock989 »

Jap2.0 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:46 am
Is this cheating?
Yes

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Re: Change rail block colors for not used, different colors

Post by eradicator »

AkQ wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:13 am
which is confusing for no reason for new players.
AkQ wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:13 am
i also don't think it would matter to the people who are used to the colors already.
AkQ wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:13 am
What did i do wrong here?
That's easy. You're putting your own opinion above everyone elses and refuse to accept that there are valid reasons for the current system to be like it is. And your only argument is "because i say so". You joined a long-established community and started off demanding things without knowing your surroundings and without being prepared for a discission.

If you actually care about this i recommend you make a mod that demonstrates the colors you desire in a live game - though during the making of that mod you might end up realizing the validity of above mentioned arguments.
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Re: Change rail block colors for not used, different colors

Post by Deadlock989 »

Jap2.0 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:46 am
I think that taking out every possible shade of red, orange, and yellow because of red and yellow being colors of signals is a bit harsh. We have purples, orange, greys (or grays), and we could probably play with lightness and some other in-between shades of colors a bit too (fit in a nice teal or something). Granted, I'm not saying it'd look good...
Orange is technically a tertiary colour on the RGB/RYB/HSV colour wheels. It's "high saturation brown". That makes it harder to distinguish from yellow or red for a large chunk of the population. "Yellow" traffic signals in my country are usually referred to technically as "amber", which is somewhere between orange and yellow - so for me, culturally, orange is damn close to yellow in the context of signals that will kill me if I ignore them. There wasn't even a word for orange in English until, well, oranges, after the 1300-1500s - before that, it was "yellow-red". Note that there is no orange combinator signal in vanilla Factorio, because those are based on primary and secondary colours in the RGB space.

This kind of stuff taps into a barrel of things, like categorical perception. The way we carve up the world and label it is partly learned, although there is interesting research into exactly which bits of categorical perception are purely biological and which aren't - there are trends in how the spectrum is bunched together under linguistic terms across all cultures, but then there are interesting exceptions as well. There are cultures which regard blue and green as the same hue. There have been others which lump yellow and green together. Russians have a different view on the whole blue/purple thing, and tend to regard dark blue as an entirely different colour to lighter blue. The ancient Greeks described the sky as "bronze", people are endlessly arguing about why, I prefer the story that says they were more motivated by brightness in choosing perceptual categories than the 21st century Western bias for hue.

As for lightness, the eye tends to perceive colours based on what other colours are around it. What looks pink in one context is described as red in another. How light does "yellow" have to be to make it not look like the "yellow" on a traffic signal? How different is it to "white" once you've gotten there?

None of this stuff is easy to manage given human diversity, so the best way to handle it is to have things as far apart in the typical colour space as you can. Which is more or less exactly what we have now.

Or you can mod it if you want teal and orange. For me, teal is just an inferior blue.

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Re: Change rail block colors for not used, different colors

Post by Jap2.0 »

Deadlock989 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:13 am
Jap2.0 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:46 am
Is this cheating?
Yes
Aww :(

(Some interesting stuff about colors though, thank you.)
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Re: Change rail block colors for not used, different colors

Post by coppercoil »

I still don’t understand, why primary + secondary colors? Player must see colors are different, that’s all. There’s just a bonus if most of players are able to name those colors, for communication. Though, I don’t think confusion between yellow and orange is significant if there’s no "another yellow". Those colors are for playing, not for saying.

Sometimes I’m just bored of standard RYGCBM colors. Also, they should not be 100% saturated all the time, that's design cliche.

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Re: Change rail block colors for not used, different colors

Post by Deadlock989 »

Seriously? The rail block visualisations need to change colour because they're boring?

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Re: Change rail block colors for not used, different colors

Post by coppercoil »

YES. Do you like boring things?
This game is in the polish stage now, so this would be fine.

There also are more boring things to change in the game... :roll:

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Re: Change rail block colors for not used, different colors

Post by Deadlock989 »

No, I can't stand boring things, or boring people ...

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