mark-for-upgrading when blueprinting over fast-replaceable entities

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Koub
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Re: mark-for-upgrading when blueprinting over fast-replaceable entities

Post by Koub »

Allow me to also point to a very similar suggestion (not only focusing on upgrading the fast replaceable entities, but everything that's in the way). I won't merge both because they are still different.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=59554
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Re: mark-for-upgrading when blueprinting over fast-replaceable entities

Post by Boppiej »

Koub wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:19 am
Allow me to also point to a very similar suggestion (not only focusing on upgrading the fast replaceable entities, but everything that's in the way). I won't merge both because they are still different.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=59554
But both of them ideas are usefull to my opinion

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Re: mark-for-upgrading when blueprinting over fast-replaceable entities

Post by Koub »

Indeed, they try to address very similar issues. I must admit I would choose the more generic one if I had a choice : a way to force build whatever is under a blueprint by deconstructing whatever is underneath OR fast-replacing what can be :mrgreen:
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Re: mark-for-upgrading when blueprinting over fast-replaceable entities

Post by Boppiej »

Koub wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:54 pm
Indeed, they try to address very similar issues. I must admit I would choose the more generic one if I had a choice : a way to force build whatever is under a blueprint by deconstructing whatever is underneath OR fast-replacing what can be :mrgreen:
Agree, or mark for deconstruct or upgrade, i assume?

But for me the first step was the upgrade problem. But why not have both at once

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Re: mark-for-upgrading when blueprinting over fast-replaceable entities

Post by Koub »

Boppiej wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:31 am
Agree, or mark for deconstruct or upgrade, i assume?
Absolutely : place the ghosts that can be placd as is, fast-replace/upgrade what can be, and finally mark for deconstruction and setup a ghost for the rest.
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Re: mark-for-upgrading when blueprinting over fast-replaceable entities

Post by Squelch »

My biggest gripe with blueprints/paste is that we can't deconstruct with the pointer while holding the print.

I know this thread is about doing it automatically, but even a manual method to work around having been denied placing a print would be useful.

This is further compounded by how the new nested BPs work, and a previously bot driven deconstruction of defunct base area. It's not uncommon for entities to get left behind because the local roboport is missing, or unpowered. To remove the errant entity, we must dismiss the BP before proceeding. Unless we have placed that rarely used - but important right now - BP on the shortcut bar, dropping it for the manual deconstruction means that we have to drill down through several layers of menu to find it again.

Oh wait! there's another belt hiding under that tree that I missed. Rinse/repeat.

I can fully appreciate why upgrading may be complicated by items or fluids already occupying entities, but I have yet to understand why marking for deconstruction, or manual deconstruction isn't possible while holding a print.

Either an automated "Mark for deconstruction" with the BP (for all entities), or simply allowing us to manually deconstruct while holding a print would be most welcome.

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Re: mark-for-upgrading when blueprinting over fast-replaceable entities

Post by Boppiej »

Squelch wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:05 pm
I know this thread is about doing it automatically, but even a manual method to work around having been denied placing a print would be useful.
But if the marking for upgrading or destructing works works automaticly (robots), it should also work by hand, then you'll have to replace/destruct the marked items by hand.

Is that what u mean?

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Re: mark-for-upgrading when blueprinting over fast-replaceable entities

Post by Squelch »

Boppiej wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:26 pm

But if the marking for upgrading or destructing works works automaticly (robots), it should also work by hand, then you'll have to replace/destruct the marked items by hand.

Is that what u mean?
Right now, we have no choice but to drop the BP, and then manually deconstruct the entities that block placing the BP. That requires remembering what entities they were, and then having to find the BP again on each attempt. My proposal is to at least allow manual deconstruction while holding the BP as an absolute last resort.

I understand there are complex issues surrounding automated (robots) upgrading while laying a BP due to the possibility of mixed ingredients, and even different recipes in some cases. Should entities also be rotated where they differ too? It sounds like automating it all is complicated, or at least that is the sense I have of the situation. The preferable fall back would be to include mark-for-deconstruction of all entities that conflict with the BP, and then rebuild with the BP entities if fast replace is a can of worms.

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Re: mark-for-upgrading when blueprinting over fast-replaceable entities

Post by Boppiej »

Squelch wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:13 pm
Boppiej wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:26 pm

But if the marking for upgrading or destructing works works automaticly (robots), it should also work by hand, then you'll have to replace/destruct the marked items by hand.

Is that what u mean?
Right now, we have no choice but to drop the BP, and then manually deconstruct the entities that block placing the BP. That requires remembering what entities they were, and then having to find the BP again on each attempt. My proposal is to at least allow manual deconstruction while holding the BP as an absolute last resort.

I understand there are complex issues surrounding automated (robots) upgrading while laying a BP due to the possibility of mixed ingredients, and even different recipes in some cases. Should entities also be rotated where they differ too? It sounds like automating it all is complicated, or at least that is the sense I have of the situation. The preferable fall back would be to include mark-for-deconstruction of all entities that conflict with the BP, and then rebuild with the BP entities if fast replace is a can of worms.
I was hoping this would be added in 1.1, but still hoping :D

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Re: mark-for-upgrading when blueprinting over fast-replaceable entities

Post by Skjolbir »

Koub wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:58 pm
I'm note sure we're understanding each other. What I meant is when I upgrade one entity, I don't always want to upgrade all entities of the same type in all my base. I may want to upgrade just a few entities at strategic locations of my base.

The way I'd do it is have N blueprints, one for every stage of my base, as my research advances, and overwrite the previous version with the new, expecting that all entities of the same type to be "overwritten" if not identical.
same here. Glad im not the first to want this

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Re: mark-for-upgrading when blueprinting over fast-replaceable entities

Post by Skjolbir »

Koub wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:41 am
Boppiej wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:31 am
Agree, or mark for deconstruct or upgrade, i assume?
Absolutely : place the ghosts that can be placd as is, fast-replace/upgrade what can be, and finally mark for deconstruction and setup a ghost for the rest.
The dream

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Re: mark-for-upgrading when blueprinting over fast-replaceable entities

Post by Soul-Burn »

Koub wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:41 am
Boppiej wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:31 am
Agree, or mark for deconstruct or upgrade, i assume?
Absolutely : place the ghosts that can be placd as is, fast-replace/upgrade what can be, and finally mark for deconstruction and setup a ghost for the rest.
Manually shift-placing things allows for fast-replacements, upgrades, undergrounds, rotations, etc.

Even without the automatic deconstruction, it would be great to have a blueprint paste mode that effectively manually shift-places all the entities in the blueprint. The logical order matters, with undergrounds coming first to replace overground belts/pipes.

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