Let the car and tank move like the player (omnidirectional wheels)

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varundevan
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Re: Let the car and tank move like the player does (Mecanum wheels)

Post by varundevan »

HDL_CinC_Dragon wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:04 am
I just wanted to +1 in favor of the current driving mechanism. To say that it is "not intuitive" is very strange to me. A vehicle turns based on where it is facing. A right turn is a right turn from the perspective of the vehicle. I think if it steered based on how you're looking at the vehicle rather than how the vehicle is oriented, I would never be able to drive it. I would always turn incorrectly unless I was driving due north.

If they do ever implement this change for some reason, I seriously hope they make it an option in the settings. I'd even pay for a $5 DLC that made it work properly like it does now.
you are right , it would be strange to have a car that changes direction of steering based on vehicle direction. i would not want that either
I was suggesting a different type of wheels (mecanum wheels) that would change the how the car moves , it is omnidirectional wheel design..
Last edited by varundevan on Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Let the car and tank move like the player does

Post by HDL_CinC_Dragon »

I see what you're saying about mecanum wheels. I've actually built a small autonomous rover that uses mecanum wheels for my work.
From a physically practical standpoint, mecanum wheels are not designed for moving a vehicle quickly or for vehicles that have a lot of inertia and attempting to do so could quite quickly and easily lead to some incredibly disastrous situations.

I think if they were to implement the motion model you're talking about, which I still think should be an option if implemented, you would have to completely ignore the inertia vulnerability of mecanum wheels which I guess can be easily handwaved (Retro rockets?).

So, for completeness, here is how I think a mecanum based vehicle would move within the game assuming the prior paragraph:
I think this could essentially be completed without actually changing tooooo much of the way vehicles currently drive... At speed at least. The main things that would need to change are the cars graphical model and the fact that the WASD keys are global rotational influences rather than local. At speed, the actual position of the car would be similar to that of the current way cars drive. If you're traveling straight north and decide to drive straight west, the current car would make a small arc until pointed to the left before straightening out the wheel to continue on that heading. I think a mecanum inspired vehicle would follow the same actual path, and the cabs facing direction would rotate to always face it's instantaneous vector just like if it were following some wheels and instead of straightening out the wheel to continue straight, it just keeps going to the targeted direction... Starting from a dead stop and traveling "sideways" would just be the same as a regular vehicle starting from a dead stop and heading straight. At speed it would follow the same arcs.

If I get unlazy, maybe I'll actually post a small video of the physical effects on how this would work logically and physically. After doing all that thinking about how it could be implemented in a way that feels "real", I'm actually kind of intrigued by the idea...

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Re: Let the car and tank move like the player does

Post by varundevan »

HDL_CinC_Dragon wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:47 am
I see what you're saying about mecanum wheels. I've actually built a small autonomous rover that uses mecanum wheels for my work.
From a physically practical standpoint, mecanum wheels are not designed for moving a vehicle quickly or for vehicles that have a lot of inertia and attempting to do so could quite quickly and easily lead to some incredibly disastrous situations.

I think if they were to implement the motion model you're talking about, which I still think should be an option if implemented, you would have to completely ignore the inertia vulnerability of mecanum wheels which I guess can be easily handwaved (Retro rockets?).

So, for completeness, here is how I think a mecanum based vehicle would move within the game assuming the prior paragraph:
I think this could essentially be completed without actually changing tooooo much of the way vehicles currently drive... At speed at least. The main things that would need to change are the cars graphical model and the fact that the WASD keys are global rotational influences rather than local. At speed, the actual position of the car would be similar to that of the current way cars drive. If you're traveling straight north and decide to drive straight west, the current car would make a small arc until pointed to the left before straightening out the wheel to continue on that heading. I think a mecanum inspired vehicle would follow the same actual path, and the cabs facing direction would rotate to always face it's instantaneous vector just like if it were following some wheels and instead of straightening out the wheel to continue straight, it just keeps going to the targeted direction... Starting from a dead stop and traveling "sideways" would just be the same as a regular vehicle starting from a dead stop and heading straight. At speed it would follow the same arcs.

If I get unlazy, maybe I'll actually post a small video of the physical effects on how this would work logically and physically. After doing all that thinking about how it could be implemented in a way that feels "real", I'm actually kind of intrigued by the idea...
It's great to hear your ideas, and that you have worked on it.
I was thinking something similar when i posted this suggestion, but i could not explain like you did.
eager to see your video.

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Re: Let the car and tank move like the player does

Post by Fitwe »

varundevan wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:14 am
HDL_CinC_Dragon wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:04 am
I just wanted to +1 in favor of the current driving mechanism. To say that it is "not intuitive" is very strange to me. A vehicle turns based on where it is facing. A right turn is a right turn from the perspective of the vehicle. I think if it steered based on how you're looking at the vehicle rather than how the vehicle is oriented, I would never be able to drive it. I would always turn incorrectly unless I was driving due north.

If they do ever implement this change for some reason, I seriously hope they make it an option in the settings. I'd even pay for a $5 DLC that made it work properly like it does now.
you are right , it would be strange to have a car that changes direction of steering based on vehicle direction. i would not want that either
I was suggesting a different type of wheels (mecanum wheels) that would change the how the car moves , it is omnidirectional wheel design..
I have the exact opposite problem. I think the current system is perfectly intuitive with direction based on the vehicle's orientation I see no reason to change it, and I think any change should be able to switch between the new method and the existing method like remapping keys. I certainly wouldn't want to change vehicle mechanics. That said some people (and I'm one of them) have trouble with the current method because MY view reference doesn't change. If I'm driving forward in a "forward" direction (bottom to top) I'm ok. Even rotated 90 degrees (left to right or right to left) I usually don't have a problem. When I start driving forward in a "backwards" direction (top to bottom) I very often go left when I want to go right or vise versa because My orientation is the screen not the car...my brain says I want to go to something on the left side of the screen so that means I should go left, but since left to the car's persepctive is actually right on the screen I go right instead. I'm getting better at it out of necessity, but having an Alternative system where the acceleration and braking (forward and reverse...vehicle mechanics generally) remains as is but the directional controls are locked to the screen orientation instead of the car orientation would be useful to me I think. Of course I say that, and it'll end up being a situation where if they ever do, by the time they add that alternate method I'll have gotten so used to the current method I'd probably never use it.

(And now to go check out the OmniCar Mod that got me here...sounded interesting.)

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Re: Let the car and tank move like the player does

Post by jamiechi1 »

The current method of moving the car and tank makes sense in a first person game but not 3rd person. Like someone mentioned above, moving the car and tank is extremely difficult if not impossible for some of us. I think the car should be changed to a small hovering flying saucer and the tank to a big armored flying saucer. I want the option to move the vehicle with the movement keys in the same fashion that the player is moved.

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Re: Let the car and tank move like the player does

Post by ssilk »

I would never say „impossible”, I think nearly everyone can learn to drive a car and a train (it’s the same logic.

By saying this is impossible and we need to have something else you forget the millions of players that managed to learn it. The car etc. in Factorio is meant as a challenge. And by adding a replacement with more abilities it clear, that the car isn’t used anymore.

What I would agree here is, that the car etc. lack the ability to be controlled by mouse (a key which switches between weapons and drive). Mouse mode automatically tries to drive to that point, without hitting obstacles.
I think that would make the hurdle to make friends with the RC-car controller feeling a lot easier, because it removes a lot of frustration potential.

Because in the end if you have learned to drive it is super useful and so much fun. ;)
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Re: Let the car and tank move like the player does

Post by Fitwe »

ssilk wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:32 am

I think that would make the hurdle to make friends with the RC-car controller feeling a lot easier, because it removes a lot of frustration potential.
See I could never fully grasp RC cars either...kept crashing them for the same reasons I crash in the game. :D

With modern tech/cameras I might be able to do better because I can see from the car's perspective, but now I have too many other things to spend my money on to try and get back into RC cars. Too bad that kind of camera view is unlikely to ever happen in Factorio. I think it would be fun to drive through my factory from a 1st person point of view.

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Re: Let the car and tank move like the player does

Post by varundevan »

ssilk wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:32 am
I would never say „impossible”, I think nearly everyone can learn to drive a car and a train (it’s the same logic.

By saying this is impossible and we need to have something else you forget the millions of players that managed to learn it. The car etc. in Factorio is meant as a challenge. And by adding a replacement with more abilities it clear, that the car isn’t used anymore.
i agree, It is true that millions of players managed to learn.
but the question that we need answer for is , how many players will opt for this when they were given an option to choose between current steering and omnidirectional steering.
a single person cannot answer this question for millions of players, so let's see how many people thinks the same way and come in.
(the people who thinks the same way of those who browse forums regularly of those millions of players :D :D ) ... lets see
:)

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Re: Let the car and tank move like the player (omnidirectional wheels)

Post by MrBadDragon »

I've found that after 2500+ hours in the game, that driving has become natural and I don't really have too many issues. Just takes a bit of practice to get the hang of it. Guess it helps that I've been driving irl for 40 years :-)

Parking the car in my carpark, or driving in my base on the other hand is frustrating, but then I have a yellow cab train service that I can summon to go anywhere within the walls. I only take my car on off-road trips into the wild.

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Re: Let the car and tank move like the player (omnidirectional wheels)

Post by foamy »

They should both be replaced with helicopters, you ask me :v

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Re: Let the car and tank move like the player (omnidirectional wheels)

Post by Hannu »

Only problem with car is turning radius independent on speed. It makes steering impractical at higher speeds. Otherwise driving logic is natural and perfect. Few decades ago all racing car and rally games worked with arrow keys (and I think they are still playable if player do not have special control devices). I can not see any other reasonable control.

Was it tank or car which reversed steering on reverse direction. I can not understand why. It is extremely illogical compared to all car driving games and steering mechanics of real cars.

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Re: Let the car and tank move like the player (omnidirectional wheels)

Post by varundevan »

when base gets bigger , using the car and driving through the obstacles is more inconvenient that just running with more exos is justifiable.
yet, it is impossible even for Captain America to run every where.

either running or driving , getting to other end of the map is a hassle.

i feel an improvement or upgrade or new mode of transport or something is needed in some way or the other IMO
A personal transport bot could be interesting alternative ...

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=81883

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Re: Let the car and tank move like the player (omnidirectional wheels)

Post by ssilk »

Hm, to get rid of driving inside factory (which is only useful, if you built wide enough roads)I find the teleportation mod from Klonan quite useful. It closes also a gap in gameplay, when you have really large maps (10 kilometers diameter or more).

The car (and tank) is not thought to drive in narrow areas, wide fields are super and really fun to drive. And that’s also where I would try to practice driving.
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Re: Let the car and tank move like the player does

Post by BlueTemplar »

Fitwe wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:07 am
[...]
Too bad that kind of camera view is unlikely to ever happen in Factorio. I think it would be fun to drive through my factory from a 1st person point of view.
Behold !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nRnnfKMZKQ

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Re: Let the car and tank move like the player does

Post by eradicator »

BlueTemplar wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:10 am
Behold !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nRnnfKMZKQ
Necroing a one year old thread to post April's Fools content in July.

Any particular award you're aiming for ;)?

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