Quick Fix: Pollution Information on Efficiency Modules

[faloun]

Hello Devs!

I have a very quick suggestion that requires no changes to game mechanics.

It seems very strange to me that both Speed and Productivity modules show exactly how they affect pollution, where Effiency modules make no mention of it. I was really confused, because it's not mentioned anywhere within the game that Efficiency modules reduce pollution. It seems like an oversight that only 2 of the 3 modules mention it.

From my understanding, this information would need to be added to 3 areas:
-The research description - "Efficiency modules decrease the energy consumption of machines and the pollution they generate"
-Tooltip hovering over an efficiency module "(-50% pollution)"
-Tooltip hovering over a machine that has an efficiency module inside "(-50% pollution)"

I think this would really benefit new players.

[bobingabout]

the thing is they don't actually reduce the "Polution" stat of the building, like Productivity modules effect it. The Polution stat is stored for the entity as "polution per energy used", which remains the same when an effectivity module is used. The effect is that polution is reduced by the same ammount that energy is reduced BECAUSE energy is reduced, where polution per energy remains the same.

[faloun]

the thing is they don't actually reduce the "Polution" stat of the building, like Productivity modules effect it. The Polution stat is stored for the entity as "polution per energy used", which remains the same when an effectivity module is used. The effect is that polution is reduced by the same ammount that energy is reduced BECAUSE energy is reduced, where polution per energy remains the same.

I understand that's how it works on the back end, but this is more about presentation to the user. Efficiency modules reduce energy use, and energy use causes pollution, so efficiency modules reduce pollution. Why not cut out that middle step and let the user know efficiency modules will reduce pollution from the start? Why do the other two modules show their effects on pollution, but make you read forums/wiki for the third? This is especially important because it doesn't say in the game how pollution is calculated.

Putting another few words into a description seems like an easy way to make the game more approachable for new players.

[FishSandwich]

Basically because, efficiency modules do not directly affect pollution, at all. They only effect the power consumption of the building they're put into, which has a(mostly temporary) side effect of reducing pollution generated by the power buildings. The descriptions you've suggested will confuse because apart from them not being true, players will expect efficiency modules to affect the pollution stat and won't understand when they don't.

Tldr productivity modules directly affect the pollution created by the building they're put into, efficiency modules do not.

Edited for clarity.

[bobingabout]

speed does as well? I thought speed only effects power consumption and speed, not pollution, where the productivity effects speed, pollution, energy consumption and productivity.

[ssilk]

https://forums.factorio.com/wiki/inde ... eed_Module

[bobingabout]

that's what I thought, it doesn't adjust the pollution stat, it just effects it because it adjusts the power consumption stat.

[FishSandwich]

Ah, well I was going by what faloun was saying, which in hindsight I guess was a mistake.

Edited my post for clarity.

[faloun]

Basically because, efficiency modules do not directly affect pollution, at all. They only effect the power consumption of the building they're put into, which has a(mostly temporary) side effect of reducing pollution generated by the power buildings. The descriptions you've suggested will confuse because apart from them not being true, players will expect efficiency modules to affect the pollution stat and won't understand when they don't.

Tldr productivity modules directly affect the pollution created by the building they're put into, efficiency modules do not.

Edited for clarity.

I've gotten a lot of different answers to this question, but the information within factorio suggests that the efficiency modules do reduce the pollution generated by the machine they are placed in. Here's a picture of what I mean. The machine on the left has no modules, the machine on the right has two efficiency 3 modules.

Machines with and without Eff 3 modules

Eff3.png (310.32 KiB) Viewed 3644 times

[FishSandwich]

Because the pollution created by buildings are tied to the power consumption. Any method used to reduce power consumption will reduce the pollution(like deliberately starving the factory of electricity), it's only the efficiency module that states it in the tooltip.

The reason the productivity module has the "Pollution: +" tooltip and the other two don't is because it DOES directly affect the pollution stat, as well as increasing electricity demand.



On the left is a factory with 2 speed 3, as you can see the power consumption is up and it has a side effect of affecting pollution. On the right is a factory with 2 productivity 3, as you see power consumption is up as well as the side effect of extra pollution, but also it has another effect on the pollution of +100%, so after it calculates the pollution from the extra power consumption, it is then doubled because of the +100%. You can see the huge difference in the two pollution values.

[Khyron]

I understand that's how it works on the back end, but this is more about presentation to the user.

I agree and others should take note: Regardless of how pollution is actually calculated, the description text for modules is somewhat misleading given the way pollution is listed on things like assembling machines.

Efficiency modules reduce energy use, and energy use causes pollution, so efficiency modules reduce pollution. Why not cut out that middle step and let the user know efficiency modules will reduce pollution from the start? Why do the other two modules show their effects on pollution, but make you read forums/wiki for the third? This is especially important because it doesn't say in the game how pollution is calculated.

Putting another few words into a description seems like an easy way to make the game more approachable for new players.

This is still valid feedback. I'm sure assembling machines could easily list "Pollution per Watt" and "Pollution" in their info panels. All modules will affect the Pollution stat while only productivity modules affect Pollution per Watt. A common thing other games do is when you boost a stat with an item: the stat changes colour.

It's not a big issue though. Most games draw a line about what's revealed in game, what's left for the player to figure out and what belongs on a wiki. The great majority of people play for fun, not to do maths. Those that like the maths come to the forums and wiki for threads like this.

[Solinya]

Bumping this old thread because I think it deserves reconsideration, especially given the way the rest of the UI has evolved since 2015.

It's not clear at all that efficiency modules reduce pollution unless you are paying extremely close attention. The tooltip only mentions the impact on energy consumption, but this can be misleading.

In a boiler base, it makes sense that less energy used means less pollution because you are burning less fuel. However, efficiency modules also reduce pollution even for machines running on pure solar energy - you can see this via the pollution graph by inserting some modules into drills. This is a bit unintuitive since you're reducing the consumption of green energy and somehow reducing pollution of the entity. It's even more misleading because productivity modules explicitly call out a separate pollution increase - something neither speed nor efficiency list.

Even if behind the covers this is a result of the energy modifier in the pollution calculation, I think it should be surfaced to the user on the item tooltip. The wiki does mention it, but the energy modifier seems like an important enough mechanism that the information should be available in-game.

I also suspect this may be a reason efficiency modules aren't used more often as people may be unaware of this (or at least the people I've talked to were under a similar misconception that the rumored pollution reduction was indirect from burning less coal/boiler fuel, which is only partially true). Contrast this with mods that have explicit pollution reduction mechanisms (like the air filters in IR), which are used a bit more frequently in situations where pollution matters.