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Idea: Alien worms can spawn random
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:48 pm
by Req
Idea: Alien worms can spawn random and will increase with pollution, this means new enemies can spawn Inside your base.
Alien nests should also be considered for new spawns.
Re: Idea: Alien worms can spawn random
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:03 pm
by Choumiko
If i understand correctly this is more or less already in the game. As far as i know, biters gather from time to time (time depends on pollution/evolution factor) to then set off to a place where they build a new nest. This leads to "random" attacks on your base, when their travel path leads them into polluted areas/ to your structures and they get distracted. I believe travel distance and size of these groups also depends on pollution/evolution, might be wrong though.
As long as there are no underground/flying biters i don't like the idea of biters spawning out of thin air in a base surrounded by walls. Just feels wrong
Edit: see
https://forums.factorio.com/wiki/inde ... #Evolution
Re: Idea: Alien worms can spawn random
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:05 pm
by ssilk
@Choumiko: Yes, see
https://forums.factorio.com/wiki/inde ... Expansions
In other words: There are mechanisms to prevent exactly that a new alien base spawns in the centre of your base. Cause they would really make some bad destruction.
There are many suggestions about "worms", digging somehow into your base. I think they plan to have plates, to prevent that also. See last FFF.
Re: Idea: Alien worms can spawn random
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:13 pm
by Choumiko
ssilk wrote:@Choumiko: Yes, see
https://forums.factorio.com/wiki/inde ... Expansions
In other words: There are mechanisms to prevent exactly that a new alien base spawns in the centre of your base. Cause they would really make some bad destruction.
There are many suggestions about "worms", digging somehow into your base. I think they plan to have plates, to prevent that also. See last FFF.
Your post caught me while editing
I knew about the 3 chunk radius, what i'm not sure off is whether "expansion" biters traveldistance/size changes with evolution.
With gates now being a thing, i wonder if it would be possible to change that to sth like: New nest only in areas not surrounded by walls/gates. I sometimes abused the 3 chunk rule by putting down 1 wall to be safe from spawns (as shameful as i find it to admit
)
Re: Idea: Alien worms can spawn random
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:40 pm
by Req
Yes but what I*m looking for is a way for aliens to get inside your base, in other words, you need to protect the entire base, not just perimeter.
I was also thinking about biters crawling up the digged tunnels or something similar
This feature also make you want to build small and compact bases.
Re: Idea: Alien worms can spawn random
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:12 pm
by starholme
Could make for an interesting mod:
Every x minutes(based on evolution factor?, or highest level of pollution?), a worm and group of aliens would appear in a chunk that has at least one player owned structure.
Allow the player to research a seismometer that could give early warning(30 seconds?)
Re: Idea: Alien worms can spawn random
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:09 pm
by Garm
You might not know it, but biters initially spawned such way.
And let me tell you it was bad.
Large bases were redundant, walls were redundant, players defended themselves by putting turrets everywhere,
I don't think its worthwhile to return back.
Re: Idea: Alien worms can spawn random
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:34 pm
by ssilk
Choumiko wrote:I knew about the 3 chunk radius, what i'm not sure off is whether "expansion" biters traveldistance/size changes with evolution.
I doesn't; look into debug mode
https://forums.factorio.com/wiki/inde ... Debug_mode and turn on show_enemy_expansion_candidate_chunks
With gates now being a thing, i wonder if it would be possible to change that to sth like: New nest only in areas not surrounded by walls/gates. I sometimes abused the 3 chunk rule by putting down 1 wall to be safe from spawns (as shameful as i find it to admit
)
It doesn't make sense, cause effective defence doesn't need a full walled factory. It's much more efficient to build single laser posts, instead of a full wall.
Re: Idea: Alien worms can spawn random
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:33 am
by Choumiko
I know, maybe i explained it wrong: Does the number of biters that set off to build a new nest depend on the evolution? And what about the distance they are willing to travel? (has nothing to do with candidate chunks. Maybe some pseudocode is clearer:
Code: Select all
bitergroup = createUnitGroup{size=3*evolution_factor}
newNestPosition = findCandidate{startingPosition=bitergroup.position, distance=14+2*evolution_factor}
This would result in number of biters being between 3 and 9, and the max radius they go to build a new nest being between 16 and 20 chunks. That's what i mean with "depend on evolution": is the evolution_factor in my code the actual evolution_factor or is it 1?
Hope i got my point across this time, if not i haven't had enough coffee yet
Next try will be in german if non-germans get my point.
ssilk wrote:It doesn't make sense, cause effective defence doesn't need a full walled factory. It's much more efficient to build single laser posts, instead of a full wall.
Agreed, but: Does it make sense that a laser post chunks away from the target the biters want to attack, when they could simply run past it? When their target is in range of the turret/laser it makes sense. But that's more about a different biter ai i guess
Re: Idea: Alien worms can spawn random
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:49 am
by ssilk
Ok, simple answer: I don't know. And I also don't know, how that influences the game. For me it makes no sense to depend their spreading numbers on evolution. I would mean: The higher the evolution, the lower the number must be.
And about AI: There are interesting ideas, which are about "layers of pheromones".
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... 440&p=2792
And search for "pheromone"...
Re: Idea: Alien worms can spawn random
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:38 am
by 1869_Flame
This idea makes me remember the old days playing Dune II (
Wiki) where you had these Sandworms.
Something similar could be fun in this game, better make sure you make some concrete slabs or whatever to prevent them from surfacing in your base
Re: Idea: Alien worms can spawn random
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:12 pm
by ssilk
Some links:
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... rms#p23358
Kovarex liked that, now he proposed the development, normally it means, many ideas from there are going into it.
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... rms#p40987
Great picture...
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... rms#p40729
Great thread about the "outpost logistic", has nothing to do with this, but I think it is worth reading full.