Logistics robots should not remove repair packs from roboports

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Pandrosos
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Logistics robots should not remove repair packs from roboports

Post by Pandrosos »

Currently (as of 0.17.69) logistics robots will remove repair packs from roboports to fulifil a logistics request. In my view they should not.

Since the roboport has slots for repair packs it invites the player to supply them. I would argue that the natural and obvious way to supply them by bot is the same way you supply anything else by bot - with a requester chest and inserter, like so:

Image

When you do this, though, logistics bots will take the repair packs out of the roboport and put them back in the chest. You get an infinite loop in your logistics system.

There are other ways to supply repair packs, for example a buffer chest. But firstly to me they are less obvious. Secondly they are in fact less optimal - with the repair packs in a chest the construction robot must detour to the chest first before going to repair an item. It might be so small it seems trivial, but it's there.

I can't think of any good reason to want your logistics bots (as opposed to your construction bots) taking repair packs out of roboports. The current behaviour to me serves no purpose other than to trip up new players.

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Re: Logistics robots should not remove repair packs from roboports

Post by m44v »

You're not supposed to put repair packs in roboports, those slots exists so construction robots can land without having to put the repair pack back in a chest.

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Re: Logistics robots should not remove repair packs from roboports

Post by foamy »

m44v wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:28 pm
You're not supposed to put repair packs in roboports, those slots exists so construction robots can land without having to put the repair pack back in a chest.
I mean, sure. The point still exists that having logistic bots, instead of construction bots, using the roboport repair pack slots is a bit odd. I suppose it exists so's you can pull your packs back out instead of having each port winding up with a buffer of the dang things.

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Re: Logistics robots should not remove repair packs from roboports

Post by kbk »

m44v wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:28 pm
You're not supposed to put repair packs in roboports, those slots exists so construction robots can land without having to put the repair pack back in a chest.
As for me, I don't mind putting repair packs manually once in a while, but this also fits the notion that putting into these slots should be restricted to conbots only. Anyways we're discussing taking from these by logistic bots.

I think that having logistic bots take from these slots is quite convenient from time to time, for example when you really want to redistribute packs (or also bots), so it would really be nice that roboport could have a requester chest behavior. The main problem I see here is that if we extend this logic to all roboport slots then home ports should be determined for bots, so that port "knows" there is this much bots bound to it and doesn't create unnecessary request jobs to the network when most of its bound bots are onto their jobs, and then there should be logic that prevents roboport request-fighting for bots in understaffed networks. All this feels totally incompatible with current logistic network idea since bots should automatically return to bound port instead of closest port after its job is done, it makes a lot of fuss in the network, so I guess it could only be done for repair packs.

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Re: Logistics robots should not remove repair packs from roboports

Post by Koub »

Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

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darkfrei
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Re: Logistics robots should not remove repair packs from roboports

Post by darkfrei »

Why the roboports have slots for repair packs? Bots can use normal logistic chests and slots of them.

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Logistics robots should not remove repair packs from roboports

Post by NancyKeype »

Not sure if this discussion is going to go much further. the suggestion has been made and its down to BW or DPG to decide if they want to take it up.

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Re: Logistics robots should not remove repair packs from roboports

Post by Koub »

darkfrei wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:24 am
Why the roboports have slots for repair packs?
A conbot carrying a half used repair pack gets back to roboport. It's very useful to let it drop the repair pack right in the roboport, instead of having systematically to fly to a storage droppoint every time.
As a secondary advantage, the next conbot that will need a repair pack will take it from the roboport.
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Deadlock989
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Re: Logistics robots should not remove repair packs from roboports

Post by Deadlock989 »

Repair packs slots have to be available to the logistic network, or construction bots would not be able to pick up packs from other roboports if their "home" port has run out.

Asking for the logistic network to be treated differently by logistics and construction bots is a weak idea and would just add to bugs and UPS overhead.
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Re: Logistics robots should not remove repair packs from roboports

Post by Pandrosos »

Koub wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:22 am
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=63965
Now, fight :)
I had forgotten the issue that inserters cannot remove repair packs from roboports. Changing that behaviour would be ideal alongside the logistics bots behaviour change I'm asking for; if neither bots nor inserters can take the repair packs out that's a bit of a nuisance.
Deadlock989 wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:39 am
Asking for the logistic network to be treated differently by logistics and construction bots is a weak idea and would just add to bugs and UPS overhead.
This comes across as an excuse. If the game engine currently has the assumption that logistics and construction bots handle the network the same way then changing that like any code requires writing and debugging, but compared to some of the stuff Wube has done I doubt it's particularly difficult.

And if changing the roboport behaviour means making it possible for a logistics chest to be logibot only or conbot only, surely that is a good thing? It'll grant the player more control over the logistics network. If the feature's not wanted in stock it can be left in the code for mods to use.

As far as UPS goes, I doubt it would make much difference. Even if it did, there's also more to Factorio than megabases. Optimisation is good and I'm very grateful Wube take it seriously, but it should not become the be-all and end-all of the game's development. Changes and new features should be considered on their benefits for all players.

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Re: Logistics robots should not remove repair packs from roboports

Post by darkfrei »

Koub wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:20 am
A conbot carrying a half used repair pack gets back to roboport. It's very useful to let it drop the repair pack right in the roboport, instead of having systematically to fly to a storage droppoint every time.
As a secondary advantage, the next conbot that will need a repair pack will take it from the roboport.
I can understand why people need tools, but why the robot needs it? It has inbuilt welding machine, inbuilt wrench, it can repair without any tools, actually the robot is also the tool.

Robots doesn't need tools by placing or removing of entities, the must not need tools for repairing, then the roboports doesn't need slots for repair packs, robots just need more energy by the building repairing.

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Re: Logistics robots should not remove repair packs from roboports

Post by Rseding91 »

As others have said: Roboports have slots for repair packs so they don't have to drop off the repair packs somewhere before going back into the roboport. Robots can also grab repair packs from other roboports so they don't get stuck in a situation where one roboport has 500 repair packs and 0 robots but another has 500 robots and 0 repair packs and nothing gets repaired.

The fact logistic robots can grab the repair packs as well is a side effect and not one that really matters. It was never intended that you requester-chest repair packs into roboports. You instead passive-provider, storage, or buffer-chest them near the roboports and the construction robots handle the rest.
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Re: Logistics robots should not remove repair packs from roboports

Post by McDuff »

Rseding91 wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:43 pm
As others have said: Roboports have slots for repair packs so they don't have to drop off the repair packs somewhere before going back into the roboport. Robots can also grab repair packs from other roboports so they don't get stuck in a situation where one roboport has 500 repair packs and 0 robots but another has 500 robots and 0 repair packs and nothing gets repaired.

The fact logistic robots can grab the repair packs as well is a side effect and not one that really matters. It was never intended that you requester-chest repair packs into roboports. You instead passive-provider, storage, or buffer-chest them near the roboports and the construction robots handle the rest.
I've got 1300 hours in game and I did not know this. I always assumed that because the slots were filtered for repair packs that you were supposed to put repair packs into them.

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Re: Logistics robots should not remove repair packs from roboports

Post by SupplyDepoo »

I made this repair pack delayed availability contraption to prevent robot deaths and it relies on logistic robots being able to take the partially-used repair packs out of the roboports and put them back into the chest (otherwise the construction robots prioritize the roboport packs). It's not terribly useful but I'm kinda proud of it.
repair-pack-tease.png
repair-pack-tease.png (1.78 MiB) Viewed 856 times

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