Train Visualization - Visualize Train on all track segments in screenspace

[GluAp]

And here comes suggestion number 3 ..

WHAT I'd wish for:

When holding a signal / station, or hovering over them, visualize the train (and track segments?) on all track segments in screenspace, if (length(segment) >= Train_visualiztation_length)


This is, how it looks at the moment (Train visualiztation length == 6):

Train Visualization now.png (1.06 MiB) Viewed 1968 times

And this, how i'd like it to look in the future (Train visualiztation length == 6):

Train Visualization better.png (808.89 KiB) Viewed 1968 times

WHY:

It's quiet hard to describe my problems here. Maybe you'll know, what I'm missing with the current system.
It costs a lot of time and nerve, placing signals individually where you usually don't use blueprints (crossings, curves, train stackers, individual train tracks ..). In those cases I will have to follow the train track with the mouse pointer (holding a signal) in every direction I want to place a signal. And for a long train I have to move there too, to place the signal. I'd be much easier if the train visualization would always work on nearby train tracks, when holding a signal.
So you will easily see where to move your mouse pointer and don't have to search for the right place along the track.
This is especially annoying, when building in the "wrong" direction, where no train is visualized, because I want to place a signal before (in train direction) an existing one. In that case I usually have to estimate where the needed position is, move there, then move the mouse back to the signal in front, look back to my guessed location, move to the exact spot and finally place the signal. This is hard to understand by text, so let me show you another example:

Signals1.png (3.16 MiB) Viewed 1968 times

Signals2.png (3.22 MiB) Viewed 1968 times

Now the frustrating part: On the left side, I have my mouse over the rail chain signal. But if I want to place a new signal in front of the rail chain signal, I have to remove my mouse from it. So I don't know anymore, where to place it.

Signals3.png (1.75 MiB) Viewed 1968 times

I'd be much easier like this: You can see, where to place signals not depending on where you put your mouse pointer

Signals4.png (2.68 MiB) Viewed 1968 times

I really hope, this is possible and the Devs and other players like it. Feedback (yay, nay or other) desired.

This proposal goes hand in hand with my other ideas about train visualization:

Train Visualization - Make last train wagon in line distinguishable
Train Visualization - Show Train Wagon Count / Index

[ssilk]

This bugs me always, too. +1

I would write that shorter: I can place rail signals only in forward-direction. But not backwards, which sometimes makes much sense.

And the forward projection of rail signals should not be just a copy of the backward, there should be a clear distinction of what is backward and what forward.

[Amarula]

+1

[GluAp]

This bugs me always, too. +1

I would write that shorter: I can place rail signals only in forward-direction. But not backwards, which sometimes makes much sense.

And the forward projection of rail signals should not be just a copy of the backward, there should be a clear distinction of what is backward and what forward.

I actually found a similar topic but it wasn't not understandable at all what was meant. This is also why I reposted the idea. And actually, I don't quiet understand, why you would want a distinction between backward and forward. And on the topic, I also don't know for sure what you mean by backward / forward. So nah - don't shorten the descriptons

I guess, by "forward" you mean the visualization AFTER a signal in train movement direction? But why would you want a distinction between what comes before and what comes behind a signal? And is AFTER one signal not the same as IN FRONT OF another Signal?
Btw - if my other ideas (that i linked) would be accepted, this would in fact be distinguishable, because the last wagon would be visualized differently.

After further thinking about it, I realized there are a lot of problems with my idea to be solved.

For example:

A) Depending on a set variable visualized_train_length == X and two signals on the same track and on the same side (direction) with a spacing > X: What should be visualized, if the signal spacing is not the exact train length?

SLLLLLL-CCCCCC-CCCCCC-CCCCCC-CCCCCC-LLLLLLS == perfect for both signals (S)
S[<<<<<<]-[------]-[------]-[------]-[------]-[------]S (represents visualization)

S++++LLLLLL-CCCCCC-CCCCCC-CCCCCC-CCCCCC-LLLLLLS == overlapping visualization with spaces (+)?

S[<<<<<<]-[------]-[------]-[------]-[------]-[------]++++S (align in front of signal) OR
S++++[<<<<<<]-[------]-[------]-[------]-[------]-[------]S (align behind signal) OR
S[<<[<<<<]-[----[--]-[----[--]-[----[--]-[----[--]-[----[--]----]S (overlapping == bad!)

This has to be decided somehow.

possible solution(s):
-> Make it dependend on player position and compare to nearest signal. Train will always be visualized nearest to signal next to player position.

__________________________________________________P________________
S++++[<<<<<<]-[------]-[------]S++[<<<<<<]-[------]-[------]S[<<<<<<]-[------]-[------]+++S

.. same track, but player changes position..

____P______________________________________________________________
S[<<<<<<]-[------]-[------]++++S[<<<<<<]-[------]-[------]++S[<<<<<<]-[------]-[------]+++S

B) What about bidirectional trains? This makes overlapping visualization even worse!

Take the following example and apply proposed solution from A): (first line represents train movement to the left, second line to the right)

S____________________S___________________S___P________________S
++++[<<<<<<]-[------]-[------]++[<<<<<<]-[------]-[------][<<<<<<]-[------]-[------]+++
[------]-[------]-[>>>>>>].............................................................................................
S_______________________________________________________________

possible solution(s):
-> Split visualization in "top and bottom" half of the train track and visualize for each direction seperatly. Search for "next signal" on both sides.
-> Disable visualization for bidirectional train tracks?

I have the feeling there'll be a plethora of problems to discover here and to find a solution for.

[Impatient]

I have a question: how does the game show you the position of 6 cars? In my version of factorio it only shows me the position of 5 cars. Is this something that can be changed by configuration or a mod?


and on the topic: +1

[GluAp]

I have a question: how does the game show you the position of 6 cars? [...]

Go to "Settings -> Interface -> Train visualiztation length" and change it.
I think, this might be a 0.17(?) feature. But I believe in earlier game versions you can change this via a change in a config file.

[JimBarracus]

Since the rail system is based on transport tycoon/open ttd.

Would love to see a feature to place signal ghosts in a certain distance.
Even though I'm not sure how to implement it since there is no god mode.
Maybe in map mode, where you can only place ghosts anyway.

https://wiki.openttd.org/Building_signa ... of_signals

[ssilk]

And the forward projection of rail signals should not be just a copy of the backward, there should be a clear distinction of what is backward and what forward.

I actually found a similar topic but it wasn't not understandable at all what was meant. This is also why I reposted the idea. And actually, I don't quiet understand, why you would want a distinction between backward and forward. And on the topic, I also don't know for sure what you mean by backward / forward. So nah - don't shorten the descriptons

I guess, by "forward" you mean the visualization AFTER a signal in train movement direction? But why would you want a distinction between what comes before and what comes behind a signal? And is AFTER one signal not the same as IN FRONT OF another Signal?
Btw - if my other ideas (that i linked) would be accepted, this would in fact be distinguishable, because the last wagon would be visualized differently.

Simple reason: To see in which direction a track goes. Or is it bidirectional?
Think for a track of 300 tiles length. Now build it some time ago and now you want to place signals. And to not mix up, that you place the signal to the right or left side of your rail it is a good idea to have different look for forward than for backward.

[GluAp]

Well, this is in fact a good reason

But I'd suggest to make it a different topic and make it's solution independant from what's being discussed here.
If, by any chance, the Devs decide to adopt my ideas and we have this 300-tile segment of your's, then my solution will have two cases:

1) When holding a signal anywhere on the screen, but not on the rails(!), the train will be visualized only where a signal already is placed. Since the idea here is that we don't have any signals on the screenspace (indicating train direction), there wouldn't be train visualization anyway.

So in this case it'd be handy to have the train direction shown (independant to any signals), even if no train is visualized.
But I'm not sure, if this is worth it. I guess an algorithm in some cases would have to search the whole rail system for what direction to display.

2) When holding a signal anywhere on the rails, there'll be visulization depending on the side you hold the signal on anyway. This makes showing the direction kind of unnecessary.