Factorio Forums

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=74011

Rseding91 wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:37 am

Thanks for the report however that's not a bug. Unpowered stuff has the same cost as powered stuff because there is no sleep logic for "has no power" to wake up things when they *do* have power. It
s expected that everything has power at all times.

Trebor wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:15 pm

Then why give us power switches in the first place?

Rseding91 wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:03 pm

Because it sounded interesting to those that decide what features get put into the game and so it was added.

That's my guess anyway. I don't know the real answer.

Suggestion: repurpose the power switch into something actually useful: a "circuit switch" that is toggleable on/off by hand (and can be done so from map view), and enables a circuit connection to pass through it when powered on.

.. Or remove a feature that functions counter to developer intentions

It is "actually useful". I use it in every single game I play to massive effect.

I don't want to flick physical switches that are 10 miles away with the power of my spooky mind thoughts.

perhaps the combinators need a setting to "clear internal signals when out of power" somewhere
this would allow your constant combinators and signals to auto on/off without any special handling.

PyroFire wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:46 am

Suggestion: repurpose the power switch into something actually useful: a "circuit switch" that is toggleable on/off by hand (and can be done so from map view), and enables a circuit connection to pass through it when powered on.
.. Or remove a feature that functions counter to developer intentions

What do you use to make sure that accumulators are used over steam power when switching to solar?
I use a circuit-controlled power switch for that. Always thought that to be common way to do it.

Oktokolo wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:17 am

What do you use to make sure that accumulators are used over steam power when switching to solar?
I use a circuit-controlled power switch for that. Always thought that to be common way to do it.

Aren't accumulators and solars used first anyway (internal priorities)?

PyroFire wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:59 am

Oktokolo wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:17 am

What do you use to make sure that accumulators are used over steam power when switching to solar?
I use a circuit-controlled power switch for that. Always thought that to be common way to do it.

Aren't accumulators and solars used first anyway (internal priorities)?

Power priority is: solar, steam then accumulators.

PyroFire wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:59 am

Aren't accumulators and solars used first anyway (internal priorities)?

Accus are terciary, the lowest priority. https://wiki.factorio.com/Electric_syst ... priorities
Terciary also runs some additional code, making this priority the only one usable with electric interfaces able to generate and drain power.


When used correctly switches are already useful reducing both power consumption and increasing ups.
I use power switches on every larger module with a delayed off circuit.

1. starve input(s)
2. wait until there are no more items produced, causing every inserter and machine to enter sleep mode (except fluid only recipes, as they don't allow sleep mode)
3. turn off power

This points to a basic problem.

BTW, it’s not 100% correct: unpowered circuits are “turned off” and should not use cpu. I mean: it looks like circuits don’t take cpu, when all circuits (the network) are inside a turned off part.

I suggested this a while ago:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=70996
Basically an idea how to turn off big parts of the factory by giving power poles a “color” that allows them to connect only to poles of the same color. The discussion is mostly about “how to achieve the color”.

But the basic problem is that in low energy situations a device can be turned on and off several times per second. I think this can lead to - hm - more problems, as to keep it as now.

Similarly, being disabled by the circuit network is not going to sleep.
So when entities are disabled or not powered, they may be in a state of something to prepare but unable to do anything. And occupy computing resources.
I mean, since nothing can be done, it’s better to sleep directly to save computing resources.

Translated by Google

Oktokolo wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:17 am

What do you use to make sure that accumulators are used over steam power when switching to solar?
I use a circuit-controlled power switch for that. Always thought that to be common way to do it.

Power switch works. I just switch the offshore pumps directly

That won't help if you have a significant steam backup...

ssilk wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:54 am

BTW, it’s not 100% correct: unpowered circuits are “turned off” and should not use cpu. I mean: it looks like circuits don’t take cpu, when all circuits (the network) are inside a turned off part.

The devs have said elsewhere that a basic assumption is that everything has power, all the time. Which is why many things are actually more costly, in terms of CPU time / UPS, when they have no power than when they have no work. Turn off power, every tick they check if they have power to do something. Give them nothing to do and they just wait for a signal from the source of work to start working again. They can't actually sleep without power.

ssilk wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:54 am

But the basic problem is that in low energy situations a device can be turned on and off several times per second. I think this can lead to - hm - more problems, as to keep it as now.

You just need hysteresis to solve this, and that is trivially implemented with the existing combinator logic capabilities. There are a trillion RS-latch designs out there, and they do idle nicely, so you have quite limited demands on updates to switch on and off based on thresholds, not a single value, and thus avoid the constant flicker.

I see that making that automatic is attractive, but I'm not sure that it'll ever be easy, because it adds a design challenge. (Plus, isn't exactly a core design feature, see also everything is always powered.)