Factorio Forums

Hello!

It will be useful if blueprint window will get these functions:

- Press F2 to rename.
For example, when creating new blueprint, instead of moving mouse and clicking to "blueprint" for rename, pressing F2 button will make it faster.

- Press Enter to confirm blueprint creation.
For example, when you done creating blueprint, instead of moving mouse and clicking "green check" for confirmation, pressing Enter will make it faster.

- Clicking RMB on components of blueprint will make them like "ghosts" (not in blueprint, but in components array).
Currently if you click RMB on some component, it will disappear from components array, and all representations of this component in blueprint will be like "ghosts". It is not useful because if you want to return some component back to current blueprint, and this blueprint contains a lot of disappeared component items, you need click LMB on EVERY "ghost" item to return them all back. Alternatively you can cancel blueprint creating and starts new, but it is not useful too, because you can make some work for this blueprint already to this moment.

Another idea is making an actual blueprint editor so you can build components that you missed when selecting.

EpicPuppy613 wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:57 pm

Another idea is making an actual blueprint editor so you can build components that you missed when selecting.

That is `/editor` mode, which already exists, or the actual game, which also already exists.

slippycheeze wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:03 am

EpicPuppy613 wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:57 pm

Another idea is making an actual blueprint editor so you can build components that you missed when selecting.

That is `/editor` mode, which already exists

Good luck keeping your Steam achievements. Oh but yes, you can copy your savefile, run the editor, edit your blueprint by recreating it, save it in your library, and reload your game.
That's not what I could call ergonomic.

Koub wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:45 am

slippycheeze wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:03 am

EpicPuppy613 wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:57 pm

Another idea is making an actual blueprint editor so you can build components that you missed when selecting.

That is `/editor` mode, which already exists

Good luck keeping your Steam achievements. Oh but yes, you can copy your savefile, run the editor, edit your blueprint by recreating it, save it in your library, and reload your game.

So, I think it is a reasonable assumption that the blueprint editor must bring something to the table that isn't possible with just stamping down the blueprint, modifying the stuff in-game, and then saving it again, right?

In which case I only see two things the blueprint editor could bring to the table: doing design without paying resource costs for constructing things, and doing it without paying the time (and so evolution, pollution, etc) costs for doing it in-game. If you still pay those then you may as well stamp the blueprint in-game, fix it, then capture it again, yes?

Both of which seem to me a perfectly good reason to disable steam achievements, since you are using it to gain an in-game advantage over someone who did the same thing without the blueprint editor. The folks who want to be able to gain that advantage *and* keep their achievements have the same ability they do today, like the save file dance, or a separate world, or https://teoxoy.github.io/factorio-blueprint-editor/ or something similar.

So ... you are correct, that'd disable the achievements, but I think that is the correct thing to do.

slippycheeze wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:33 pm

Koub wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:45 am

Good luck keeping your Steam achievements. Oh but yes, you can copy your savefile, run the editor, edit your blueprint by recreating it, save it in your library, and reload your game.

So, I think it is a reasonable assumption that the blueprint editor must bring something to the table that isn't possible with just stamping down the blueprint, modifying the stuff in-game, and then saving it again, right?

In which case I only see two things the blueprint editor could bring to the table: doing design without paying resource costs for constructing things, and doing it without paying the time (and so evolution, pollution, etc) costs for doing it in-game. If you still pay those then you may as well stamp the blueprint in-game, fix it, then capture it again, yes?

Both of which seem to me a perfectly good reason to disable steam achievements, since you are using it to gain an in-game advantage over someone who did the same thing without the blueprint editor. The folks who want to be able to gain that advantage *and* keep their achievements have the same ability they do today, like the save file dance, or a separate world, or https://teoxoy.github.io/factorio-blueprint-editor/ or something similar.

So ... you are correct, that'd disable the achievements, but I think that is the correct thing to do.

I think the price to pay to change a few items in a blueprint should not be to sacrifice your ability to get achievements. I know that not two people value Steam achievements the same way. After all, they are just a way to show off. But I think that just changing normal inserters into fast inserters (or AM1 into AM2) in your <insert blueprint name here > blueprint, for a blueprint you have already designed, should not imply a solution that voids your ability to get achievements.

Editing a blueprit directly would not allow you to do things you couldn't do, just lowers the tedium. Actually, the materials to build the actual blueprint are not even necessary. The way I do it is :
1) get out of my construction network
2) Store my personal robots into a temporary chest
3) Clear of rocks/trees and optionally landfill an area big enough to plonk the blueprint
4) plonk my blueprint
5) destroy my eyes by finding witin that faint blue ghost mass the items I want to change in the blueprint (or copy paste 1 tile away, or whatever change I want to do)
6) Once I'm satisfied, recreate the resulting blueprint
7) Don't forget to take back my personal robots.

It's excessively tedious but doable. I think this level of tedium shouldn't be necessary, even on vanilla.

Koub wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:48 pm

But I think that just changing normal inserters into fast inserters (or AM1 into AM2) in your <insert blueprint name here > blueprint, for a blueprint you have already designed, should not imply a solution that voids your ability to get achievements.

For this category of example you can just use an upgrade planner inside the blueprint ?

BlueTemplar wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:43 am

Koub wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:48 pm

But I think that just changing normal inserters into fast inserters (or AM1 into AM2) in your <insert blueprint name here > blueprint, for a blueprint you have already designed, should not imply a solution that voids your ability to get achievements.

For this category of example you can just use an upgrade planner inside the blueprint ?

Yeah, but upgrade planners are for use on actual parts of the factory. Imagine you have blueprinted your default one pump 20 boilers 40 steam engines with small power poles. Once you discover the medium ones you want to change your blueprint so small poles are replaced by medium poles. You wouldn't want to keep the blueprint AND the upgrade planner permanently to lay down inital blueprint and systematically upgrade the poles after that. Also applies to your smelting arrays.

I know there are many occasions I have told to myself "Damn, I wish this blueprint was slightly different, if only I could edit it to add this and that, and move that part". And every time, I had to do the "lay down, edit with ghosts, recreate the blueprint, regive a name, regive the icons, store it in my BP book, remove the old one" gymnastic.

Sure, once the blueprint book is complete and filled with "perfect" blueprints, the need vanishes. I've never been able to get to that point, so I keep struggling. Either I'm the worst player of Factorio ever, or others do face the same issue.

Koub wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:03 am

You wouldn't want to keep the blueprint AND the upgrade planner permanently to lay down inital blueprint and systematically upgrade the poles after that. Also applies to your smelting arrays.

Yea, so you just upgrade the blueprint.

Bilka wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:07 am

Koub wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:03 am

You wouldn't want to keep the blueprint AND the upgrade planner permanently to lay down inital blueprint and systematically upgrade the poles after that. Also applies to your smelting arrays.

Yea, so you just upgrade the blueprint.

And the only way to do that currently is with the...

Koub wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:03 am

"lay down, edit with ghosts, recreate the blueprint, regive a name, regive the icons, store it in my BP book, remove the old one" gymnastic.

I'd much rather do it inside the blueprint itself.

Koub wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:48 pm

slippycheeze wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:33 pm

Koub wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:45 am

Good luck keeping your Steam achievements. Oh but yes, you can copy your savefile, run the editor, edit your blueprint by recreating it, save it in your library, and reload your game.

So, I think it is a reasonable assumption that the blueprint editor must bring something to the table that isn't possible with just stamping down the blueprint, modifying the stuff in-game, and then saving it again, right?

...snippity on the rest of what I said...

I think the price to pay to change a few items in a blueprint should not be to sacrifice your ability to get achievements. I know that not two people value Steam achievements the same way. After all, they are just a way to show off. But I think that just changing normal inserters into fast inserters (or AM1 into AM2) in your <insert blueprint name here > blueprint, for a blueprint you have already designed, should not imply a solution that voids your ability to get achievements.

I also recognise the "value of steam achievements" thing. I know that I don't care, and I try to remember that others see it differently. I still think my position was reasonable, but you convinced me: this is a reasonable thing for people to want to use without ditching the achievements, so it isn't just `/editor`. (and thanks, I like to learn to understand other views better, so am happy about this conversation.)

Koub wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:03 am

Yeah, but upgrade planners are for use on actual parts of the factory. Imagine you have blueprinted your default one pump 20 boilers 40 steam engines with small power poles. Once you discover the medium ones you want to change your blueprint so small poles are replaced by medium poles. You wouldn't want to keep the blueprint AND the upgrade planner permanently to lay down inital blueprint and systematically upgrade the poles after that. Also applies to your smelting arrays.

In my mental model, which I'll admit is partly informed by the minor convenience of the Picker "update blueprint" feature, was that you would do this by:

1. Lay down the blueprint with small poles in a bit of empty space, completely non-functional, and then
2. Apply the upgrade planner to change poles -- or, more likely, replace them by hand since they change positioning, and then
3. Throw away the upgrade planner you will never need again, and then
4. Create a blueprint from the new layout, with medium poles, and then
5. Tear down the stuff built there, since it was only used to upgrade the blueprint.

All the Picker mod bit does is give me a keybinding that automates the process of deleting the old blueprint, changing the name to add a version number, and setting the same, eg, icons etc. Saves a bit of time copying the name and icon settings of the blueprint over, helps keep track of which version this is. (Don't think I have gone above v.8 on any of them yet, but I'm sure I will...)

Again, for replacing entities you don't even need to lay down the blueprint, see picture above ^

(Also, you can delete entities in the blueprint by right-clicking on them...)

BlueTemplar wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:58 pm

Again, for replacing entities you don't even need to lay down the blueprint, see picture above ^
(Also, you can delete entities in the blueprint by right-clicking on them...)

Yes, I recognise that, but you can't *move* them in a blueprint. My response was (a) to an earlier comment, and (b) to explain the part that you couldn't do with the upgrade planner into the blueprint directly, which I assume is going to happen pretty much all the time.

I mean, how often do you only need to bump the belts or poles in something, but not make any other changes? They don't scale linearly, so you can't just go yellow -> blue belt and have it work by just upgrading the assembler or furnace count, either. So... you are not wrong, it just isn't enough to fully address the requirements **I believe** are going to exist.

Oh, right, my bad - I assumed that it was about just not making the wooden poles any more.

Though if the change gets any complex, aren't you better off starting from scratch anyway ?

BlueTemplar wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:43 pm

Oh, right, my bad - I assumed that it was about just not making the wooden poles any more.
Though if the change gets any complex, aren't you better off starting from scratch anyway ?

I think it started from there, kinda. I believe that is such a tiny subset of the total set of changes, though, that it isn't going to be long before that becomes a key part of the request. Personally, I tend to end up with v3 or v4 on a bunch of blueprints because I design them myself, and don't always carry them over game to game, so I fix minor mistakes along the way.

I do have a bunch of "t1, t2, t3" blueprints for the assembly machines, etc, going up along the tiers. Because, yeah, while theoretically I could upgrader them, it almost always turns out that there are bigger changes at the same time that make it easier to start from scratch.