Suggestion - Combined Multi Assemblers

[SkiCarver]

TL;DR

Create assemblers that are single object (mega assemblers) built from multiple assemblers, inserters and storage chests, that place on the map as single items, but allow parallel stages of assembly so a single large object can produce multiple objects or single objects that requires multiple assembly steps.

What ?

Create multi-assemblers that allow for the production of multiple items.

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The 'multi-assembler' object can be built once the tech has been researched (a tech and multi-assembler for each level of assembler tech?). This would be an assembler that works as a single object producing multiple items using multiple production slots. The items produced could be all the same - every production slot producing say, yellow belts, or they could be set up to produce the sequence of objects required for a final product - all the parts required for assembly machine 3s.

The image below offers a suggestion how the user will specify the production and allocate the storage.
The user selects the production slot at the top and chooses the production for that slot. At the bottom they can specify how the available storage is to be allocated.

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I suggest that these will be built in assemblers, with the ingredients being assemblers. inserters and storage chests (and modules on the level 3 mega assembler?).

I suggest that we could have different sizes of multi-assembler. Assembling machine 1 based multi assemblers can have 3 production slots. Assembling Machine 2 based multi-assemblers could have 3 or 6 production slots .... and 3, 6 and 9 slots for Assembling Machine 3 based multi-assemblers.

We could, perhaps, expand the idea to include the addition of furnaces and / or oil processing to the multi-assembler, allowing the user to build multi-assemblers with whatever production unit he/she wishes. The user can specify a 9 slot multi-assembler and add any machine into each slot. They could then use this to process uranium (8 slots) with a slot running kovarex, or they could have a refinery and chemical plants ...... The icons on the top of the machine would be like those for a blueprint. - If we were to include refineries or uranium processing, those objects would be included in the ingredients, and we would add items like pipes and storage tanks also.

Why ?

The task in early game would be the same as it is now, that you have to work out how to produce items using belts, assemblers and inserters ... and that would not change. Later in the game, once you have worked out the issue, simply repeating the arrangements you already have is a trivial task .. (assuming you have bots). These machines would provide an additional route to achieving production and would offer the player a choice of how to proceed. Do they rip up their existing and use 'elegant' multi assemblers (assuming they can work out how to organise the production within such a machine) or do they leave what they have?
I can also see that these machines could be 'nested' together to work in parallel, to combine the multi-production of the machines, passing resources back and forth between them to expand the complexity of items that can be produced.
The multi-assemblers therefore provide an additional avenue for exploring the optimal way to build your factory ....
Do I build a mall with individual machines, or do I use a smaller number of multi-assemblers .... ??

I expect there will be a small benefit in reduced graphical load due to fewer items displaying (and moving).

[Optera]

Can easily be done in a mod.

Add tech and recipes to craft multi stage assemblers.
Add new recipes locked to a new assembling machine type, hidden from players.

Even condensing only 2 steps like building green circuits directly from copper plate and iron plate in 50 or 100 stacks a time will drastically improve performance for entity update.

[SkiCarver]

Can easily be done in a mod.

Add tech and recipes to craft multi stage assemblers.
Add new recipes locked to a new assembling machine type, hidden from players.

Even condensing only 2 steps like building green circuits directly from copper plate and iron plate in 50 or 100 stacks a time will drastically improve performance for entity update.

I have some coding experience but not sure I have the time / motivation to learn modding for factorio and then maintain the mod.

edited to add, I guess the question is, ... Do we (the community) think this is an interesting idea? I guess if people are keen, we can get someone (maybe me) to create the mod.

[SkiCarver]

I should add that I am not proposing changing recipes, I just want a 'later game' tool that can avoid simply replicating the existing factory via blueprints. The multi-assemblers would be a puzzle of their own ... how to use them individually and in combination to build the later game factory.

[Koub]

Isn't this very similar to what https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Factorissimo2 does ?

[Deadlock989]

Isn't this very similar to what https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Factorissimo2 does ?

Not really. You still have to kit out the "inside" of each Factorissimo factory with actual assemblers, belts, inserters etc. using the real recipes and the same game mechanics as outside the factory. Factorissimo factories are essentially just a portable mini-surface. It has been a long time since I played with Factorissimo but I don't remember any way of duplicating a factory's internals beyond the normal blueprint mechanics.

It's not clear to me from the description how this suggestion would actually work in practice or even what the benefit is, if it's not the kind of "recipe shortcut" that Optera suggested. If it did let you build machines that e.g. produce circuits from just a copper and iron plate input, it would feel a bit like "dumbing down" to me, and not worth the (possibly minor, depending) UPS benefit. I'm interesting in having more assembly complication, not less.

[SkiCarver]

Isn't this very similar to what https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Factorissimo2 does ?

Not really. You still have to kit out the "inside" of each Factorissimo factory with actual assemblers, belts, inserters etc. using the real recipes and the same game mechanics as outside the factory. Factorissimo factories are essentially just a portable mini-surface. It has been a long time since I played with Factorissimo but I don't remember any way of duplicating a factory's internals beyond the normal blueprint mechanics.

It's not clear to me from the description how this suggestion would actually work in practice or even what the benefit is, if it's not the kind of "recipe shortcut" that Optera suggested. If it did let you build machines that e.g. produce circuits from just a copper and iron plate input, it would feel a bit like "dumbing down" to me, and not worth the (possibly minor, depending) UPS benefit. I'm interesting in having more assembly complication, not less.

Hi Deadlock,

I will have another look to see if I can improve the description, but what I am after is to give another stage where the base could be re-designed and the machines themselves would need some thought to get right - setting up each production slot and the storage allocations in order for it to work.

There would be some simplification in the small stages, but my expectation is these multi-assemblers would become available after you have solved how to build and produce. That the repetition of building is reduced over time is, to me, a good thing. For example, once I have built my preferred method of producing green circuits ... Copy+Paste ... Copy+Paste ..... and so on whenever I need green circuits or I take a feed off the bus. Once these multi-machines are available, I can start to solve how to produce the more complex objects from base materials using a multi-assembly machine. So, rather than having separate assemblers for gears, copper wire, green circuits and then electric miners ... I can spend time working out how best to use a multi-assembler (or more than one) to optimise my process. It may be, for example, that a certain item cannot be produced with the correct ratios, so I need an additional assembler producing gears and other objects.

As I say, I will have another go at my explanation, but my thinking for allowing user control of the storage is that it permits the assemblers to be laid out in arrays and the building materials propagated through the machines If I so choose. If I have, for example, three multi-machines in a row, I can load all the base materials in the first machine, even if it doesn't need those items, they can then be passed onto the subsequent machine as required. ....hmmm .... I need to make some pictures .... I'll be back!

[eradicator]

If I have, for example, three multi-machines in a row, I can load all the base materials in the first machine, even if it doesn't need those items, they can then be passed onto the subsequent machine as required. ....hmmm .... I need to make some pictures .... I'll be back!

Sounds like you just don't like the logistic management and want to get rid of it by building a row of 500 "magic super assemblers" feeding everything in on one side and getting everything out on the other side (no offense meant). And to me a 1000-assembler array looks 500 times nicer than 2 "magic super machine".

[SkiCarver]

If I have, for example, three multi-machines in a row, I can load all the base materials in the first machine, even if it doesn't need those items, they can then be passed onto the subsequent machine as required. ....hmmm .... I need to make some pictures .... I'll be back!

Sounds like you just don't like the logistic management and want to get rid of it by building a row of 500 "magic super assemblers" feeding everything in on one side and getting everything out on the other side (no offense meant). And to me a 1000-assembler array looks 500 times nicer than 2 "magic super machine".

no offence taken, but I will point out that I limited it a 9 assemblers within the multi-assembler. I would agree that the 'fun' is solving the structure of the array, the combination required to produce what I want.... once I have done that, i done see any fun in simply replicating it. By offering an alternative to the user, people have more choices.

[Ranger_Aurelien]

Keep in mind factorio is about single discrete step actions. (Each building can only do ONE thing at a time). Also note that assembler2 and Assembler3 have only one fluid intake pipe, but if you have this complicated machine, perhaps none for simplicity...


I think I understand an end purpose. Say you want the end product "Power Armour MK2", and with hand crafting you could click "power armour" and if you have the raw materials you will get a queue of dependency builds.

https://wiki.factorio.com/Power_armor_MK2

So what I would like is if you could pick an "end" recipe, your mega-assembler (Maybe call it Jumbo3) would populate with all the sub-recipes down to the rawest ingredients possible (e.g., say if blue processors or plastic was needed). Then I could right-click and remove recipes to assume *I* will be including a middle product (such as red circuits).

So I can see my example trimmed to require a supply of electric motors, blue processors, green and red circuits. It will linearly make just enough Module2s then roll up to the final recipe.

My point is the "required" amount for the materials as outputs of the lower recipes should only be "enough" (not fill an entire stack)

[wobbycarly]

This is kind of along the same lines as Whistle Stop Factories.

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/WhistleStopFactories

[JimBarracus]

+1 for an assembler, that needs iron ore, copper ore, oil and water and directly produces rocket parts

[Deadlock989]

This is kind of along the same lines as Whistle Stop Factories.

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/WhistleStopFactories

Wow. That's ... that's wow.

[Deadlock989]

+1 for an assembler, that needs iron ore, copper ore, oil and water and directly produces rocket parts

Wasn't there someone making a mod for under-five-year-olds, to make Factorio easy enough for them to understand ... forget the name ...

[SkiCarver]

+1 for an assembler, that needs iron ore, copper ore, oil and water and directly produces rocket parts

-1 from me, that is not what I am after.... hence the limit of 9 assemblers .... not to mention issues of balance.

[mrvn]

Can easily be done in a mod.

Add tech and recipes to craft multi stage assemblers.
Add new recipes locked to a new assembling machine type, hidden from players.

Even condensing only 2 steps like building green circuits directly from copper plate and iron plate in 50 or 100 stacks a time will drastically improve performance for entity update.

But how do you connect the copper wire assemblers with the green circuits assembler? You have to add some hidden inserter or loaders as well. green circuits might be simple, just 2 steps. What about CPUs in angels where you have to build resistors and transistors and a whole bunch of stuff in different ratios and it's not linear but a tree. What about something with a feedback loop or catalyst that you need to feed back in? Building those hidden machines automatically is generally really complex.


Another post mentioned factorissimo2. That might be a way to go. The user has to design the inside of the combined-multi-assembler. But then the design can be taken as blueprint and more copies of the designed combined-multi-assembler can be produced. So the mod would have to make a combined-multi-assembler entity that takes a blueprint and the materials listed in the blueprint (too bad this can't be a recipe). Once they are provided it builds a hidden factory setup factorissimo style from the blueprint and items would flow.

Wouldn't do anything for the UPS though.

[eradicator]

@Deadlock: Mod portal search for "children" has only one result.

@SkiCarver: And how would you explain the "9"? Factorio - unlike many other games - largely avoids artificial limitations. There's no housing limit, or population limit, or whatever. "It's nine because i said it's nine." wouldn't work in a factorio context.

[SkiCarver]

@Deadlock: Mod portal search for "children" has only one result.

@SkiCarver: And how would you explain the "9"? Factorio - unlike many other games - largely avoids artificial limitations. There's no housing limit, or population limit, or whatever. "It's nine because i said it's nine." wouldn't work in a factorio context.

You mean artificial limits like 15 items/s on a belt, a chest with 48 storage slots, robotports with a stack size of 10, machine speed of 1.25, robotport loggistic range of x squares ......... .... yep, no artificial limitations...
and btw, the 9 simply came from the proposal that the multi-assemblers have three stages, and it seemed like 3 stages and three production slots per stage worked well. You are correct that it does not have to be 9, but it is my proposal and that what I set it at.

[mrvn]

@Deadlock: Mod portal search for "children" has only one result.

@SkiCarver: And how would you explain the "9"? Factorio - unlike many other games - largely avoids artificial limitations. There's no housing limit, or population limit, or whatever. "It's nine because i said it's nine." wouldn't work in a factorio context.

You mean artificial limits like 15 items/s on a belt, a chest with 48 storage slots, robotports with a stack size of 10, machine speed of 1.25, robotport loggistic range of x squares ......... .... yep, no artificial limitations...
and btw, the 9 simply came from the proposal that the multi-assemblers have three stages, and it seemed like 3 stages and three production slots per stage worked well. You are correct that it does not have to be 9, but it is my proposal and that what I set it at.

That's all soft limits. You can change them in a mod.

[eradicator]

@Deadlock: Mod portal search for "children" has only one result.

@SkiCarver: And how would you explain the "9"? Factorio - unlike many other games - largely avoids artificial limitations. There's no housing limit, or population limit, or whatever. "It's nine because i said it's nine." wouldn't work in a factorio context.

You mean artificial limits like 15 items/s on a belt, a chest with 48 storage slots, robotports with a stack size of 10, machine speed of 1.25, robotport loggistic range of x squares ......... .... yep, no artificial limitations...
and btw, the 9 simply came from the proposal that the multi-assemblers have three stages, and it seemed like 3 stages and three production slots per stage worked well. You are correct that it does not have to be 9, but it is my proposal and that what I set it at.

a) I said "largely avoids" not "completely avoids", but apparently that was too suble.
b) What you're descibing are "capabilities" of machines, not combination limits. It's not an "artificial limit" if a belt isn't infinetly fast. But what you're proposing is a mechanic "if you put this machine next to that it does X", but when you place too many machines it stops doing X. Kinda like saying "you can only have 6 inserters per assembler", and the seventh would just refuse to work without any *visible* indication why.
c) I'm not saying "9" is a bad number. I'm saying that by your description the "9" mechanic would be immersion breaking.
d) But regardless of all that...you're proposing to make an already overpowered multi-assembler capable of automagic chaining with other assemblers. That's a power spiral that can only go the same way as minecraft ore doubling tripling quadrupling... quintupling. For me vanilla lives off the "combine tiny pieces into something larger" aspect. And contrary to you i do not believe in "choice" if there is a clearly more powerful tool to do the job. It's like telling someone they can "choose" to do the nails with their bare hands instead of a hammer.