Item Weight

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hitzu
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Re: Items, too big for the inventory

Post by hitzu »

@krux02

Ok, let's imgine that you suggestions and the suggestions of many other peoples are embedded. Form the perspective of the interface how do you manage the placement of these large objects? Likely it would the same item in your inventory, that you have now. But now it is the item and you propose to replace it with a hadle or something like control panel, right? Again, from the perspective of the interface what would change? In both cases you have to pick up item and place it on the ground. The only difference is how long you have to wait until it ready to use.

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Item weight and limits on bots & inserters

Post by PacifyerGrey »

While the discussions about bots vs belt still continue some respectful players have already developed mods for pallets ( like https://mods.factorio.com/mod/DeadlockStacking ).
While the mods themselves are quite nice they still do lack the core game functionality to limit bot transfer and inserter transfer on those pallets so I would like to propose devs to implement some feature to make that available.

IMO the best way to do it would be adding numerical weight to all items and adding a condition for all types of bots and inserters with the weight limit they are able to transport. I do understand this will add slightly to CPU load but I am sure this will definitely add possibilities to the gameplay.

This weight stuff might be used in vanilla if you decide so but it can definitely be used by modders to experiment on stuff like heavy lifter bots or heavy lifter inserters.

An easier way would be adding a flag like "heavy" to items but it would then limit possibility of adding a research for carry weight for bots/inserters.

dood
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Re: Item weight and limits on bots & inserters

Post by dood »

All it takes to keep bots from interacting with stacked stuff is to auto-convert it back to unstacked items if they enter any inventory.
Why do you feel the need to limit inserter interaction with stacked items tho?
As they are in the mod you linked, they aren't used in any recipe other than unstacking.

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Deadlock989
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Re: Item weight and limits on bots & inserters

Post by Deadlock989 »

dood wrote:All it takes to keep bots from interacting with stacked stuff is to auto-convert it back to unstacked items if they enter any inventory.
Not possible. Requested, was denied for performance reasons. viewtopic.php?f=28&t=57102
Even if we had it, reverting them to unstacked form would mean that bots can pick up more than they should be able to. A flag on items to say "bots can't pick this up" would solve all these problems at once, but probably introduce others.
Why do you feel the need to limit inserter interaction with stacked items tho?
As they are in the mod you linked, they aren't used in any recipe other than unstacking.
Some players have suggested that crated/stacked items should only be usable by stack inserters. I don't have a strong opinion on it.
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Re: Item weight and limits on bots & inserters

Post by bobucles »

I'm not a fan of any item that bots can't pick up. That's the fastest way to break blueprints and force the player to play janitor for non-bottable items. Manual work isn't Factorio.
Some players have suggested that crated/stacked items should only be usable by stack inserters. I don't have a strong opinion on it.
IMO anything should be allowed to pull from a belt. It'd be a shame if normal/fast/long inserters became totally broken and obsolete because they can't grab things, even if they are stacked. Players should also have a choice whether they fill a belt flat or try for the ultimate compressed high throughput stacks. Stack inserters already exist to separate the choices.

I understand why mods have to transform items using recipes to switch between single items and boxes of items, but ultimately I think it's bad to clutter the player with meta recipes. Transforming items is ultimately a boring form of busy work and if bots can carry meta items then we're back at square one, because bots are still the best at moving either an item or a crate of items. It would be best if the system was totally transparent and just worked on belts. Some mods get pretty close to that.

To reiterate:
Pickup : anything, any time
place flat : burner, normal, fast, long
place stacked : Stack

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Re: Item weight and limits on bots & inserters

Post by dood »

Deadlock989 wrote:Not possible. Requested, was denied for performance reasons. viewtopic.php?f=28&t=57102
Even if we had it, reverting them to unstacked form would mean that bots can pick up more than they should be able to. A flag on items to say "bots can't pick this up" would solve all these problems at once, but probably introduce others.
Yeah, using bots to deconstruct things as well as logistics network storage management would be a nightmare if there was any sort of item type they can't touch, much less an item type that is supposed to fill entire belts by the thousands that makes its way into your inventory on the regular so a straight up forbid to pick up flag for bots would be no good.

If automatic item stack reverting kills performance, maybe not going hardline "bots can't touch this" rather than "logistic bots get slowed when carrying this" flag may be the best solution. Don't mess with construction bots.

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Re: Item weight and limits on bots & inserters

Post by PacifyerGrey »

My idea was only to limit logistic bots from interacting with items leaving construction bots alone.
And yes I am a fan of leaving stacks to stack inserters or some other heavy lifter inserter type.

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Re: Item weight and limits on bots & inserters

Post by bobucles »

Maybe it'd be better to illustrate a bit? List some items you consider "heavy", vs. items that are "light". Then it'd be easier to explain how a weight system helps or doesn't help.

I'd feel bad if an inserter couldn't carry a full stack of nuclear reactors at once. That's a very important part of my builds! :lol:

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Re: Item weight and limits on bots & inserters

Post by PacifyerGrey »

bobucles wrote:Maybe it'd be better to illustrate a bit? List some items you consider "heavy", vs. items that are "light". Then it'd be easier to explain how a weight system helps or doesn't help.

I'd feel bad if an inserter couldn't carry a full stack of nuclear reactors at once. That's a very important part of my builds! :lol:
My idea is to prevent common inserters and bots from carrying stacked items (pallets). This is part of my more general plan of balancing bots vs belts
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=57100

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Item Weight

Post by adam_bise »

I realize development is late stage, but who knows what will happen post 1.0?
I always wondered how does a drone carry an oil refinery? Perhaps off screen they dissassemble them and take the pieces? In any case..

There seems to be a missing piece to the simulation.. Item weight.

The stack size already sort of sets the physical size of an object, how many you can fit into a chest etc. ..But as it is a trainload of plastics will stop and start at the same speed as a trainload of iron plates!

Also, the item weight could affect bot speed. Simply the heavier the load, the slower the bot flies.

This would also allow things like making the tank more useful by putting weight limits on the character inventory, based on exoskeletons, but allow the tank to carry a very heavy load.

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Re: Item Weight

Post by Koub »

adam_bise wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 7:16 pm
I always wondered how does a drone carry an oil refinery? Perhaps off screen they dissassemble them and take the pieces? In any case..
Quantic(*) (de)compression. Same technology that allows your character to carry stacks of refineries in his/her backpack.


(*) quantic because nowadays, whenever you have something that seems magic and no one can explain, it's quantic.
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

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Re: Item Weight

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Re: Item Weight

Post by adam_bise »

This made me realize, If the stack size of a gum wrapper is 1000, and the stack size of an artillery shell is 1, a drone can still carry no more than 4 of either lol.

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Re: Item Weight

Post by Chao »

Drones use anti-grav technology to make weight meaningless, but they have limited numbers of hooks to grab items with ;)

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Re: Item Weight

Post by ickputzdirwech »

[ick] Merged four topics about weight for items.
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