Reworking catalysts

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gaelyte
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Reworking catalysts

Post by gaelyte » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:03 pm

Some crafts in the game (and its mod) have the same input and output or a part of the input is in the output, so we have to remove the item from the factory to put in it again, which is a weird action.
To remove this fact, I will propose three methods and I will use the Kovarex enrichment process(40*U-235 + 5*U-238 -> 41*U-235 +2*U-238) to make theses methods more explicit :
1) Autofill the inputs with the output : The easiest way to solve this problem, but also the least intuitive for the new players, 40 units of the U-235 and the U-238 will not get out of the factory and will stay as input of the recipe
2) Create a third class, like input and output : catalyst : they can be consumed but stay here if they aren't. In the example, there is no input, 40*U-235 and 5*U-238 as catalyst and one U-235 as output
3) Like in the second, there are catalyst but this time, nothing is used, so the recipe is this time :
Input : 3*U-238
Catalyst : 40*U-235, 2*U-238
Output : 1*U-235

I hope you'll like this suggestion and I hope it's not a duplicate of an older one
Last edited by gaelyte on Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:20 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Reworking catlysts

Post by Koub » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:16 pm

[Koub] Moved to ideas and suggestions.
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leadraven
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Re: Reworking catlysts

Post by leadraven » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:30 pm

Well, I suggested exactly (3) somewhere (can't find already). I like it most. It is simple, intuitive, clarifies Productivity module effect.
P.S. You messed up with uranium so much. :D Kovarex does 3*U238 ---(40xU235+2xU238)---> 1xU235.

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Re: Reworking catlysts

Post by gaelyte » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:33 pm

leadraven wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:30 pm
Well, I suggested exactly (3) somewhere (can't find already). I like it most. It is simple, intuitive, clarifies Productivity module effect.
P.S. You messed up with uranium so much. :D Kovarex does 3*U238 ---(40xU235+2xU238)---> 1xU235.
Thanks, I corrected it
(I don't usually work with nuclear, it's more for the angel's bio industries)

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Re: Reworking catlysts

Post by bobingabout » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:51 pm

I've been wanting something like this, I've talked to the devs about it before.

Like when my greenhouse mod gave seedlings as part of the wood recipe. that's the ingredient.
it would be ideal if the seedling just appeared back in the input instead of having to be removed and re-inserted manually.
There are other things too, like different rods being used by the electrolysis process. or the Liquid Florine electrolyte that you dissolve Alumina in to electrolyse into Aluminium, it would only use a small part, the rods are reusable and deteriorate over time, so a tool type item that takes durability (Like science and repair packs) would work well for the rods, Liquid Florine would most likely just have result slightly less than ingredient.

But yes, Catalyst in recipes could cover a huge array of things. Some catalysts are simply an item that needs to be present(Just an extra slot that needs an item, but doesn't get used up), some deteriorate over time(The item is used for a limited number of runs, so, a tool as an ingredient, and it only consumes a percentage of a single item), and others are used in the process, but given back (output put back in the input)

The only real response I got was... "That's not how the catalyst system works"
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Re: Reworking catlysts

Post by gaelyte » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:01 pm

bobingabout wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:51 pm
But yes, Catalyst in recipes could cover a huge array of things. Some catalysts are simply an item that needs to be present(Just an extra slot that needs an item, but doesn't get used up), some deteriorate over time(The item is used for a limited number of runs, so, a tool as an ingredient, and it only consumes a percentage of a single item), and others are used in the process, but given back (output put back in the input)

The only real response I got was... "That's not how the catalyst system works"
If it's a new feature, it's normal that it's not the same thing as it works now🤔

And for the catalyst that degrades themselves, we would need an other stat to avoid the fact that we can place the catalyst, repair it and put it in the factory again in some cases...

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Re: Reworking catlysts

Post by bobingabout » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:08 pm

gaelyte wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:01 pm
bobingabout wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:51 pm
But yes, Catalyst in recipes could cover a huge array of things. Some catalysts are simply an item that needs to be present(Just an extra slot that needs an item, but doesn't get used up), some deteriorate over time(The item is used for a limited number of runs, so, a tool as an ingredient, and it only consumes a percentage of a single item), and others are used in the process, but given back (output put back in the input)

The only real response I got was... "That's not how the catalyst system works"
If it's a new feature, it's normal that it's not the same thing as it works now🤔

And for the catalyst that degrades themselves, we would need an other stat to avoid the fact that we can place the catalyst, repair it and put in in the factory again in some cases...
I used to do that in EVE online. certain constructions required you to have a specific item. This item only had a certain percentage used per recipe. You could do a single run, collect it, then repair the item and use it again, reducing the cost of this particular item drastically.

But anyway, items as they stand now in the game cannot be repaired, only entities can. You can't "Repair" your repair pack, or science pack can you?

But yeah, perhaps an ingredient of type = "tool", you could specify amount = 0.05 for 5%, that way you can run the recipe 20 times from a single item.
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leadraven
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Re: Reworking catlysts

Post by leadraven » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:24 pm

bobingabout wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:08 pm
But yeah, perhaps an ingredient of type = "tool", you could specify amount = 0.05 for 5%, that way you can run the recipe 20 times from a single item.
I think catalysts don't need degeneration. You always can scale recipe up to integer numbers.
But another type of items - сonsumables... (viewtopic.php?f=6&t=64612) Items not involved in the recipe, but used to improve machine. Like modules with limited lifetime.

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Re: Reworking catlysts

Post by Arch666Angel » Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:01 pm

bobingabout wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:08 pm
gaelyte wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:01 pm
bobingabout wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:51 pm
But yes, Catalyst in recipes could cover a huge array of things. Some catalysts are simply an item that needs to be present(Just an extra slot that needs an item, but doesn't get used up), some deteriorate over time(The item is used for a limited number of runs, so, a tool as an ingredient, and it only consumes a percentage of a single item), and others are used in the process, but given back (output put back in the input)

The only real response I got was... "That's not how the catalyst system works"
If it's a new feature, it's normal that it's not the same thing as it works now🤔

And for the catalyst that degrades themselves, we would need an other stat to avoid the fact that we can place the catalyst, repair it and put in in the factory again in some cases...
I used to do that in EVE online. certain constructions required you to have a specific item. This item only had a certain percentage used per recipe. You could do a single run, collect it, then repair the item and use it again, reducing the cost of this particular item drastically.

But anyway, items as they stand now in the game cannot be repaired, only entities can. You can't "Repair" your repair pack, or science pack can you?

But yeah, perhaps an ingredient of type = "tool", you could specify amount = 0.05 for 5%, that way you can run the recipe 20 times from a single item.
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Re: Reworking catlysts

Post by TheKingOfFailure » Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:46 am

leadraven wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:24 pm


I think catalysts don't need degeneration. You always can scale recipe up to integer numbers.
But another type of items - сonsumables... (viewtopic.php?f=6&t=64612) Items not involved in the recipe, but used to improve machine. Like modules with limited lifetime.
I like the consumables idea. Reminds me of grinding balls in the EnderIO SAG Mill (Minecraft Mod). A machine will run at x% productivity, but only if it's fed lubricant or whatever...

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