All military research depends on oil processing -> Make military science pack depend on oil

[striepan]

Make military science pack research depend on oil processing in the tech tree. Now all military tech depends on oil processing research anyway. I think it would simplify the tree, and make the progression more straightforward especially for new players. As it stands now I can see someone researching military science pack and realizing she can't use it for anything. It would help to reduce browsing in tech tree to untangle the hidden dependencies.

Again it would indicate for the player what he needs to focus on to make progress. Especially since many people feel that setting up oil processing is a major stumbling block for beginners.

The only downside is that it would reduce player's flexibility, but i don't really see any reason to research military science before researching oil or even before setting up oil processing.

[Ranakastrasz]

Several weapon upgrades use military science, and don't require oil to use.

[striepan]

Which upgrades? As I see it every military research is locked behind oil processing research.

[BlueTemplar]

I'll just repost this :

Bullet & gun damage upgrades are critical !

Against Big Biters, the damage per shot of piercing rounds goes from
1/2*0.9=0.45
without upgrades

to

(8*1.6*1.6-8)*0.9 = 11.232
with the two upgrades at lvl 4 (Green+MilSci)

- almost a 25-fold increase !

(And that only for resource efficiency, there are also the firing speed upgrades...)

viewtopic.php?p=397382#p397382
(AFAIK it hasn't changed radically since 0.16 even if the exact damage might not be the same ?)

[striepan]

I can see my confusion now. For example Weapon shooting speed 3 uses military research. I guess the question now becomes why doesn't it depend on military research while land mines and whole bunch of stuff do. What's the logic behind it?

[BlueTemplar]

What doesn't depend on military research ?
Earlier weapon upgrades ?
Because military research takes a while to set up, and players should have the option to make their early game weapons better without it ?

[striepan]

I'm saying that in the research tech tree land mines are locked behind military science pack while shooting speed 3 is not. It just uses military pack for the research to progress.

[CDarklock]

I'm saying that in the research tech tree land mines are locked behind military science pack while shooting speed 3 is not. It just uses military pack for the research to progress.

This is an unclear statement, but what he's saying is this:

You can't actually make land mines without oil processing, but you can research them without oil processing.

I've seen this same basic argument before, which comes down to this line of thinking:

"Why should you know how to do something before you have the materials to do it?"

Well, because you might need bread to make a sandwich, but you don't need bread to learn how to make a sandwich, and literally nobody in human history has ever been confused by this.

[striepan]

No, that's not what I'm saying. All I'm talking about is the tech tree. I was wrong in my original post. I didn't notice that military pack is used to research some upgrades - for example shooting speed 3. When you click on military science pack research you don't see it in the graph.

[BlueTemplar]

Ah, yeah, IIRC devs said that tying all of the researches to their respective science packs would make the tree "too messy"...
Maybe it's better for it to be messy, rather than confusing people like this ?

[leadraven]

Ah, yeah, IIRC devs said that tying all of the researches to their respective science packs would make the tree "too messy"...
Maybe it's better for it to be messy, rather than confusing people like this ?

Yes. Definitely. Absolutely. Every day it annoys me more and more. I initially did not realize how wrong it is. No sarcasm, I'm serious.