Dynamic train schedule

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ssilk
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Re: Dynamic train schedule

Post by ssilk »

merged into this topic --ssilk
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Conditional stations in train schedule

Post by Sopel »

TL;DR
Each station in train schedule has "arrival" conditions complenting the currently existing "departure" conditions.
What ?
Each station in train schedule right now has "departure" conditions. The proposition is to natually extend this to have optional "arrival" conditions that determine whether a schedule entry is to be respected or omitted. The "arrival" conditions are specified in the same form as "departure" conditions currently in the game. The "arrival" conditions are checked just before trying to path to the scheduled station, if not fulfilled then next item is considered immediately. By default the "arrival" condition on each schedule item should be "true" which means it should be respected.
Why ?
Trains require fuel. Fueling trains has always been troublesome. Not counting mods 3 main ways of fueling trains that I can think of.
1. Always add a fuel station to the schedule - increases traffic and increases latency.
2. Fuel trains at each loading station, fuel distributed by trains - requires bringing fuel to each outpost, ends up buffering a lot of fuel, slightly increases traffic, increases number of stations.
3. Fuel trains at each loading station, fuel distributed by bots - only viable for bases with extensive roboport networks which have many problems on their own.
This feature would allow easy creation of refueling stations that are only used whenever needed.
Last edited by Sopel on Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Conditional stations in train schedule

Post by MassiveDynamic »

Pretty sure this will be fixed in the next update according to last weeks FFF.

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Re: Conditional stations in train schedule

Post by conn11 »

Furthermore, refuelling should be the least problem, given 3 slots for nuclear fuel per locomotive.

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Re: Conditional stations in train schedule

Post by Sopel »

MassiveDynamic wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:12 pm
Pretty sure this will be fixed in the next update according to last weeks FFF.
how so?
conn11 wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:22 pm
Furthermore, refuelling should be the least problem, given 3 slots for nuclear fuel per locomotive.
3 nuclear fuel is a finite amount

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Re: Conditional stations in train schedule

Post by MassiveDynamic »

Sopel wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:12 pm
MassiveDynamic wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:12 pm
Pretty sure this will be fixed in the next update according to last weeks FFF.
how so?
As described in FFF the train station limit would allow a fuel train to have a schedule that includes all the stations but it would only actually deliver if there is room in the station allowing the fuel train to “loiter” around the base without causing backups.
Also there is a fourth option that you did not consider in your post. Each train could contain a fuel wagon which refills each stop as it makes its normal circuit. Fuel wagon chests can be limited so as to avoid too much overstock. It’s a pretty simple solution to the “problem” you present.

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Re: Conditional stations in train schedule

Post by SoShootMe »

Sopel wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:06 pm
TL;DR
Each station in train schedule has "arrival" conditions complenting the currently existing "departure" conditions.
I have a feeling this (or similar) has been suggested before, but I can't find it; I think expressed as a way to say "Skip this stop if ...".
Sopel wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:06 pm
Why ?
Trains require fuel. Fueling trains has always been troublesome. Not counting mods 3 main ways of fueling trains that I can think of.
1. Always add a fuel station to the schedule - increases traffic and increases latency.
2. Fuel trains at each loading station, fuel distributed by trains - requires bringing fuel to each outpost, ends up buffering a lot of fuel, slightly increases traffic, increases number of stations.
3. Fuel trains at each loading station, fuel distributed by bots - only viable for bases with extensive roboport networks which have many problems on their own.
TL;DR: there may be good reasons for the suggestion but I don't think this is one.

Firstly, to be able to use "arrival conditions" for train fueling, you would also need to be able to set a condition based on fuel. I think that is not as simple as it may first appear due to multiple locomotives (which may be facing different directions) and fuel types.

Secondly, I've never considered fueling trains troublesome. In the early game, I see it as a similar logistics problem to, but lower volume than, fueling stone/steel furnaces. At first, I may have a few trains delivering raw materials to a common location, so they are simply refueled as they unload there. With the stops close together this can be done using belt, but if stops are distributed around a base, manually filled chests is also viable.

By the time I have multiple locations where trains unload, a few extra stops and some buffered fuel are not a concern (I think this is likely to be true for any kind of "modular" factory). So those downsides of #2 don't apply and I do something like that: one extra stop at each of those locations, enabled when its buffer is low, that fuel is delivered to and distributed to the nearby stops by belt/bot. As above, trains are refueled as they unload, avoiding the diversion and delay that #1 would introduce (though your suggestion would make this infrequent). The buffer means one train is sufficient to supply many stations and the extra rail traffic of transporting fuel (another downside of #2 you mentioned) is negligible.

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Re: Conditional stations in train schedule

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SoShootMe wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:20 am
I have a feeling this (or similar) has been suggested before, but I can't find it; I think expressed as a way to say "Skip this stop if ...".
Maybe this one:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=64362 Dynamic train schedule

But the number of suggestions that want to extend the train schedules is high...
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Re: Conditional stations in train schedule

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SoShootMe wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:20 am
Firstly, to be able to use "arrival conditions" for train fueling, you would also need to be able to set a condition based on fuel. I think that is not as simple as it may first appear due to multiple locomotives (which may be facing different directions) and fuel types.
Like "Fuel in any locomotive less than N%" ?

I can add another condition: "No other destination". So trains, loosing destination (due to stations off, limited, destroyed etc) can reroute to depot.

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Re: Dynamic train schedule

Post by Koub »

[Koub] Merged into older thread with same suggestion.

[Edit]
ssilk wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:27 am
SoShootMe wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:20 am
I have a feeling this (or similar) has been suggested before, but I can't find it; I think expressed as a way to say "Skip this stop if ...".
Maybe this one:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=64362 Dynamic train schedule

But the number of suggestions that want to extend the train schedules is high...
Well yes :)
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

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Re: Conditional stations in train schedule

Post by SoShootMe »

Sad_Brother wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:29 am
SoShootMe wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:20 am
Firstly, to be able to use "arrival conditions" for train fueling, you would also need to be able to set a condition based on fuel. I think that is not as simple as it may first appear due to multiple locomotives (which may be facing different directions) and fuel types.
Like "Fuel in any locomotive less than N%" ?
I think that, or close to it, is the only sensible option but I disregarded it because it's so specific to the "refuel stop" approach, and being so specific feels somehow wrong. But now I think about it, the only real reason I can see to read fuel is to use that approach.

The point remains that to allow an efficient "refuel stop" approach (which does not seem necessary to me, but each to their own), you need both the "skip if..." feature and a "fuel condition" feature.

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