Research teams

[Astrologic]

I feel like this wouldn't just help the game, but I feel it's necessary for any pvp aspect of the game.
This is my idea. When you join/host a multiplayer game, you can initiate a research team. You are the leader of that particular research team.
You can invite others to join it, put a password on it that other users may join in if they know the password, you can kick people from it, or you can keep it exclusive towards you. You can also set a default research team that players are automatically assigned to upon entering a multiplayer game.
You'd have options upon creating a new multiplayer map, such as lock research teams, or disable research teams, meaning everyone is on their own. You can also set the maximum (or unlimited) number of players per research team. You should be able to select whether or not players can be kicked from research teams, or if they have to leave on their own accord once they join.
If all players leave a research team, it vanishes. If the leader of a research team leaves the research team they created, leadership goes to the next in line, the second person that joined, or the leader can pass leadership before leaving.

It's kind of like a party system, I suppose. (Maybe it can be? For automobile interaction and such?)

Once you place a science lab, it is automatically assigned to your research team. All research that takes place is attributed towards the members of that research team. If a player previously has not researched something, they can join a research team and have those technologies available to them, though they will not retain those researches after they leave the research team UNLESS they were in the research team for the entire duration in which the research was being studied. Of course, that can be modified to suit the desires of the devs.



The reason I believe this is not just important, but crucial, is because it allows for a pvp experience in multiplayer. If I create a public multiplayer world, I may enjoy seeing other players join up, if they'd like to build up a big base and wage war with me, that's awesome. I love a good battle.
However, if another player joins, starts researching different crap to try and kill me while I'm researching oil refinement or something, I just end up getting annoyed. If my friend and I want to wage war with a third person, and we've agreed on a research branch, we don't need that third person changing our weapons research to turret research. How fair is that?
Coop gameplay is fun in games like this, but I want to have the freedom of dueling empires.
I could see this evolving to include robot AI in the future, to ensure that robots don't cross into enemy boundaries and start stealing resources, though that'd be pretty funny.

I'd love to hear any suggestions to improve this idea.

[eradicator]

I'd love to hear any suggestions to improve this idea.

Eh, how is this different from the PvP scenario? Factorio already has a team mechanism. Everything a team does is independant of what other teams do (changing machine recipes, research, chest content, etcpp).

[Astrologic]

It's different because the teams in the scenarios aren't dynamic. You can't create a free world and just do what you like. Let's say I meet 8 people, I like 3 of them, so I invite them to my party. But let's say the other 4 don't like us, or each other. That creates 5 teams.
I do not know how people will be when they join, so I can't exactly account for the future when I create a map.
Maybe I want to play a coop map with the possibility of having an enemy team, but it never happens, I don't want to discount the possibility for the exciting encounter.
The pvp scenario plays like a quickie death-match game, not the type of game this is.

The pvp scenario forces you to be on a team. What if someone doesn't want to be on a team? They can't leave.
What if a player offers materials in exchange for a truce? Locked teams, it can't currently happen.
What if I get backstabbed and decide to make a new team? I have to remake the entire map?

To say you don't see a difference in my proposal and the current pvp scenario option is ludicrous.
Under my proposition, a new menu would be implemented that would allow a user to create a team, or view other teams already made. Some would be free to join, others would be locked by passwords, or invite-only. Some teams would be powerful, others perhaps not so much.

What I proposed is for free world maps, a new option that allows a whole new realm of strategy. Negotiations, truces, alliances, war, espionage, player management, backstabbing, in-game politics, trading, bribing, and much more. I understand there's an option under pvp maps which allows for players to pick their teams, but it's not the same at all. I, as the host, have to pre-define the teams before I even know who's going to join. The new players blindly have to pick a team to join without even knowing the map, the teams, the players, etc. Sure, they could leave, rejoin, and select a different team, but that's just not viable.

What if I don't like a player? Can I kick them from my team? Or do I have to kick them from the entire game?
Even if I don't like a player, I don't want to kick them from my game. I want to have fun trying to outmatch them.

Personally, I don't like pvp deathmatch games. I like having options, and I especially don't like being forced to fight against another player JUST because they are on a different team.

Think about it.

[eradicator]

To say you don't see a difference in my proposal and the current pvp scenario option is ludicrous.

Calm down. Take a deep breath. I was merely asking if what you want is "just" a new scenario or actually new game mechanisms. From your answer it seems that a new scenario would be sufficient as all the technical background for managing "teams" already exists in the game.

So..let's talk about details:

Let's say you A play with 2 other people B and C for 10-20ish hours, and have established a medium sized base. D joins and helps expanding the base for another 10 hours. Now you get into an argument and as the leader want to kick D out of the team. What exactly do you want D to be allowed to keep? If he only gets the technologies researched while he was on the team then he's stuck with i.e. having express belts but lacking basic automation. Does he get to keep any of the buildings, or does he have to build a base from scratch? Where is he teleported to? If there's no safe zone somewhere he can't even walk out of the base without being shot down by the defense walls. What of his inventory? If he sensed that he'll be kicked soon he might have just picked up lots of expensive stuff as an insurance. Or he might not.

I also just remembered that there was a mod called Space Book that allowed basic team management, but it's not updated to 0.16. You could try it in 0.15 to see if that's similar to what you want and maybe someone could update it or make a new mod out of it.

[Astrologic]

If D dies, D gets nothing, and he spawns randomly after his death. Survival of the fittest.
Then again, D might have gotten himself kicked out of the team because he equipped uranium rounds and went psycho on the team leader with a machine gun. Either way, I wouldn't mind if these things came to pass.
Sounds like entertaining gameplay.
I was thinking it'd be perhaps a good idea if players couldn't be kicked out of teams, but instead had to leave by their own accord (optional).
That way, if a player is invited to a team, gets technology, enters the base, unless he/she chooses to leave, you're stuck with them. Of course, you could always leave the team.

[eradicator]

If D dies, D gets nothing, and he spawns randomly after his death. Survival of the fittest.
Then again, D might have gotten himself kicked out of the team because he equipped uranium rounds and went psycho on the team leader with a machine gun.

It could also be that D built an awesome assembly line and the leader was miffed becaues D is better at the game. And so the leader chose to abuse his power to kill D. I remeber that in Diablo 2 you could only change teams if you're inside the safe zone. But a safe zone is hard to establish in an infinite world where someone could just build turrents all around the zone.

But even if D leaves the team peacefully, does he get some of the tech? Or does every new team have to start from 0? Is it really fun to leave a well established factory to venture into biter infested territory to try and start a new factory from 0?

Personally i like big factories, so the whole concept of "several factories on the same map" is difficult to understand when considering UPS constraints.

[Astrologic]

It'd be a fun challenge. I mean, you're more likely to leave one factory to join another, but if you really wanted to go off into the wild and start again from scratch, it'd be good to have that option. And yes, you'd keep all the tech which was researched. So you'd at least be able to build electric miners and electric furnaces right off the bat.

[eradicator]

So you'd at least be able to build electric miners and electric furnaces right off the bat.

Hm. I think this simply needs an option when someone creates a new team, either to inherit the tech from his current team, or to start from scratch. Also you probably can't allow someone switching from one team to another to "bring over" technology, or else someone could run around and collect tech from several teams and suddenly his own team has more reserach than anyone. I guess an RTS like "share technology" menu would work, if you already want diplomacy. Leads to "Give us [Rocket Technology] and [Grenade Damage 2] right now or we will obliterate you!" (generic NPC accent) :p.