Nukes are overpowered and they need to be nerfed in some way

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wat3rstone
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Nukes are overpowered and they need to be nerfed in some way

Post by wat3rstone »

Personally, I think that nukes are a bit over powered and needs to be nerfed (with some sort of side effect or disadvantage), and in addition to that, I think that there should be changes to nukes in the way they are made.
Changes that should be made to how work Nukes in general
First off: the nuke's recipe should to be changed by converting the 30 uranium that it already costs, into 60 uranium to discourage mass production and to increase the time to 120 seconds.
Second off: When launching a nuke, I don't believe it can be done with a rocket launcher in your hand: "about the size of a conventional Mk.81 250-pound (110 kg) bomb, 11.8 inches (30 cm) in diameter and 31.4 inches (80 cm) long, and only slightly heavier at about 290 pounds (130 kg)"-Wikipedia. What I propose to solve this would be a sort of rocket launcher that would kind be placed on the ground, then that turret will be loaded and you will manually select the destination of the target explosion area.
Changes in the explosions of nukes/aftermath of nukes
1. Would be kinda cool to see a mushroom cloud after explosions in the vanilla game like this mod: Mushroom Cloud by: Arcitos
2. After the nuke explodes, there would be a cloud of radioactive that "escapes" and creates a radiation cloud in the shape of a sphere with a diameter of 35 tiles (about twice as little as the original explosion's diameter) which will rapidly expand and move in the general wind direction (like poison capsules). This cloud would be tinted light transparent green and will harm the player; however, it will mutate any biter, worm, spitter, and nest that it crosses paths with. These mutation will cause random benefits for the entity, for example: additional health (x1.5, x2, x5), resistance (or weakness) to certain types of attack, the ability to breath fire, have large area-effect jaws, etc., but will cause harm and pain to the player, (perhaps there could be a suit to protect this or have some resistance). (if this is not inputted into the vanilla version, I'd love to see it as a mod)
3. The trees for a couple chunks outside of the blast radius would ripple from the shock-wave of the blast (perhaps could be implemented with grenades, mines, and the other rockets too)
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Re: Nukes are overpowered and they need to be nerfed in some way

Post by MeduSalem »

Why do you even think that Nukes are overpowered?


I find Destroyer Capsules even more hardcore... they last much longer, are almost invincible in mass and hack&slash everything into pieces.

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Re: Nukes are overpowered and they need to be nerfed in some way

Post by wat3rstone »

Because destroyer capsules can be destroyed, not nukes
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Re: Nukes are overpowered and they need to be nerfed in some way

Post by MeduSalem »

Well if I go in with 100 Destroyer bots I can annihilate an area 10-20 times that of a single nuke... None of the bots gets ever destroyed until they run out on their own because of how the mass of bots in combination are one-hitting everything before it comes in range or can respawn, even without tons of infinite research buffs.

Nuking is only aggro'ing more biters from nearby and then you can make a run for it if you don't intend also to nuke yourself. Hence why I mostly don't use nukes because of how late they are in the research tree and how much other infrastructure and optional research (especially Kovarex) it requires to be mass produced.

If at all I would also want them to be implemented for Artillery as well with an even bigger blast radius, twice or triple the size it is currently.



But that said, the player can carry around tons of items and material in his inventory... So why not also fire a nuclear rocket from the rocket launcher.

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Re: Nukes are overpowered and they need to be nerfed in some way

Post by Tekky »

wat3rstone wrote:What I propose to solve this would be a sort of rocket launcher that would kind be placed on the ground, then that turret will be loaded and you will manually select the destination of the target explosion area.
How about being able to load the artillery gun with a nuclear warhead? This has been suggested in the following thread:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=55088 Nuclear Artillery Shells

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Re: Nukes are overpowered and they need to be nerfed in some way

Post by nosports »

wat3rstone wrote:Personally, I think that nukes are a bit over powered and needs to be nerfed (with some sort of side effect or disadvantage), and in addition to that, I think that there should be changes to nukes in the way they are made.
Changes that should be made to how work Nukes in general
First off: the nuke's recipe should to be changed by converting the 30 uranium that it already costs, into 60 uranium to discourage mass production and to increase the time to 120 seconds.
Second off: When launching a nuke, I don't believe it can be done with a rocket launcher in your hand: "about the size of a conventional Mk.81 250-pound (110 kg) bomb, 11.8 inches (30 cm) in diameter and 31.4 inches (80 cm) long, and only slightly heavier at about 290 pounds (130 kg)"-Wikipedia. What I propose to solve this would be a sort of rocket launcher that would kind be placed on the ground, then that turret will be loaded and you will manually select the destination of the target explosion area.
Changes in the explosions of nukes/aftermath of nukes
1. Would be kinda cool to see a mushroom cloud after explosions in the vanilla game like this mod: Mushroom Cloud by: Arcitos
2. After the nuke explodes, there would be a cloud of radioactive that "escapes" and creates a radiation cloud in the shape of a sphere with a diameter of 35 tiles (about twice as little as the original explosion's diameter) which will rapidly expand and move in the general wind direction (like poison capsules). This cloud would be tinted light transparent green and will harm the player; however, it will mutate any biter, worm, spitter, and nest that it crosses paths with. These mutation will cause random benefits for the entity, for example: additional health (x1.5, x2, x5), resistance (or weakness) to certain types of attack, the ability to breath fire, have large area-effect jaws, etc., but will cause harm and pain to the player, (perhaps there could be a suit to protect this or have some resistance). (if this is not inputted into the vanilla version, I'd love to see it as a mod)
3. The trees for a couple chunks outside of the blast radius would ripple from the shock-wave of the blast (perhaps could be implemented with grenades, mines, and the other rockets too)
I totally agree with this....

I had proposed this also recently as with an additional pollution layer .....

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Re: Nukes are overpowered and they need to be nerfed in some way

Post by wat3rstone »

MeduSalem wrote:Well if I go in with 100 Destroyer bots...one-hitting everything before it comes in range or can respawn
That in itself costs a lot of research to get up there with the space science and all, even if you go to 60 robots (maximum followers before the infinite tech) there is a significant difference than going in with 10 nukes from the factory. The nukes would be able to take out a more larger significant are than the bots.

Now, with the non space tech of 60 robot limit, they don't do much to behemoths, big biters yes but bemoths no. A capsule shoots 3 times per second, with each shot doing 10 damage (30 per second), now if we add on the ther 59 capsules you'll have a total you will have 1800 damage per second (a little less than a behemoth per 2 seconds), and then you walk into a mega base and they'll start firing in every direction, nests, worms other biters. Then to add on top of that each worm has a long enough range to outfire the destroyers along with the behemoth spitters. In conclusion your destroyers would be on the ground in a pile of rubble while you'll be shot to death.
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Re: Nukes are overpowered and they need to be nerfed in some way

Post by MeduSalem »

wat3rstone wrote:In conclusion your destroyers would be on the ground in a pile of rubble while you'll be shot to death.
Funny that I come out victorious... except if I become greedy / cocky.

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Re: Nukes are overpowered and they need to be nerfed in some way

Post by wat3rstone »

nosports wrote:
I totally agree with this....

I had proposed this also recently as with an additional pollution layer .....
Thank you for agreeing with me, and if you already proposed this topic than the developers have a higher chance of implementing this because more people would want it.
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Re: Nukes are overpowered and they need to be nerfed in some way

Post by wat3rstone »

MeduSalem wrote:
wat3rstone wrote:In conclusion your destroyers would be on the ground in a pile of rubble while you'll be shot to death.
Funny that I come out victorious... except if I become greedy / cocky.
Not necessarily, you could be inching your way through a base and all the while each destroyer would be picked off one by one from behemoth spitters and worms (2 consecutive shots from a worm will cause the death of a robot). And a base normally has some enemies to defend itself so when the destroyers are attacking the biters the spitters behind would be killing your destroyers.
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Re: Nukes are overpowered and they need to be nerfed in some way

Post by Atlas »

wat3rstone wrote:
Thank you for agreeing with me, and if you already proposed this topic than the developers have a higher chance of implementing this because more people would want it.
Yeah, tell that to people who proposed smarter trains.

Also I don't see nerfing as progress. People recently want stuff to be nerfed, whether we're talking about bots, smart splitters or nukes. Smart splitters themselves have started an unbelievable outrage. My question is, if you don't like the technology, why don't you just stop using it? Factorio is a huge game, that gives players many possibilities and options on solving problems. There's no right way to play, there are many ways. The game doesn't necessarily have to be Dark-Souls hard, it's a game. The game cannot be tailor-made for each player, but you can choose your way to play.

And I'm sorry if I sound hostile. I'm just getting fed up about all these OP OP OP posts.

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Re: Nukes are overpowered and they need to be nerfed in some way

Post by nosports »

Atlas wrote:
wat3rstone wrote:
Thank you for agreeing with me, and if you already proposed this topic than the developers have a higher chance of implementing this because more people would want it.
Yeah, tell that to people who proposed smarter trains.

Also I don't see nerfing as progress. People recently want stuff to be nerfed, whether we're talking about bots, smart splitters or nukes. Smart splitters themselves have started an unbelievable outrage. My question is, if you don't like the technology, why don't you just stop using it? Factorio is a huge game, that gives players many possibilities and options on solving problems. There's no right way to play, there are many ways. The game doesn't necessarily have to be Dark-Souls hard, it's a game. The game cannot be tailor-made for each player, but you can choose your way to play.

And I'm sorry if I sound hostile. I'm just getting fed up about all these OP OP OP posts.
As for me, i don't think thats atomic-missle is op, at least the blast radius is not so super good.
But i think its defenitely powerful and in late game i think there is enough uran available ( i have around 6k U235 currently) to build hunderts atomic missles.

But i think that it should come with a resonable cost to prevent from over usage.....

In this case it should be a nuclear wasteland, which can represent an additional puzzle to solve if you want access the area and its resources.
-> so you would need some decontamination process at hand to use and traverse this land.
If its addtional cleaning bots to clear the area or a decontimination-factory both would be fine and will need some new puzzels and installments.

Using additional (moddable) pollution layers for the contamination would even present a possibility to create certain environemnts in a some area....

the one thing in factorio i feel is OP are the logistic-bots, they present a NIL-puzzle for me so don't use them, because i want belts and inserts working..... :D

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Re: Nukes are overpowered and they need to be nerfed in some way

Post by Selvek »

Clearing biter bases late game is a chore, not a challenge or fun. Nukes offset the pointlessness of the time required to clear out biters. They required a massive infrastructure investment to mass produce, so they are only available very late game in useful quantities.

No nerf is needed IMO.

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Re: Nukes are overpowered and they need to be nerfed in some way

Post by nosports »

Selvek wrote:Clearing biter bases late game is a chore, not a challenge or fun. Nukes offset the pointlessness of the time required to clear out biters. They required a massive infrastructure investment to mass produce, so they are only available very late game in useful quantities.

No nerf is needed IMO.

easist way to clear biters automatically :

* set up mass production Arty shell
* place a arty-base on rails with trainstation retour point and heavy defences
* load arty train at arty-shell production
* call train to arty-base let the arty drain itself

-> rinse, repeate step 3 to 4, when all is cleared place next arty-base


you can do that at multiple areas, if you mark targets by hand the clearing area far bigger.

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Re: Nukes are overpowered and they need to be nerfed in some way

Post by Koub »

wat3rstone wrote: Second off: When launching a nuke, I don't believe it can be done with a rocket launcher in your hand: "about the size of a conventional Mk.81 250-pound (110 kg) bomb, 11.8 inches (30 cm) in diameter and 31.4 inches (80 cm) long, and only slightly heavier at about 290 pounds (130 kg)"-Wikipedia. What I propose to solve this would be a sort of rocket launcher that would kind be placed on the ground, then that turret will be loaded and you will manually select the destination of the target explosion area.
It's more like a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Croc ... ar_device)
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

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Re: Nukes are overpowered and they need to be nerfed in some way

Post by Hannu »

A agree only that use of nukes should produce massive pollution. But nukes are intended to be relatively easy solution to clear large areas. It is very tedious work without nukes. Increasing costs does not have practical effect because there are always infinite amount of uranium and production facilities are free.

If someone likes more laborious area clearing it is good idea just not use nukes. Or if they feel cheap feel free to adjust uranium ore low (I did it once and it was really interesting to get uranium from 3 kilometers away). But I like to have an "overpowered" way to clear areas with relatively reasonable grinding. Of course I would prefer some kind of programmable autonomous combat vehicles but it seems not to be in developers mind.

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Re: Nukes are overpowered and they need to be nerfed in some way

Post by gsezz »

I don't think nukes are op. They are completely irrelevant. They aren't good for anything, besides the fun aspect of blowing things up. There are quicker, safer and more efficient ways to clear areas. Nukes are just a gimmick, why nerf that? A special radioactive pollution layer just for balancing such a tiny part of the game would bee far overdone.

But, if you want to nerf them.
Let nukes always hit the player with a critical but not deadly amount of damage. So that you can fire only one or two before you have to regenerate health. This damage should ignore armor and shields. It could be a caused by loading the radioactive warhead into the launcher.

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Re: Nukes are overpowered and they need to be nerfed in some way

Post by Aeternus »

Try clearing a forest with Destroyer drones Medu :P

Nukes are nice gimmicks but I agree, completely impractical unless you've got yourself in such a biter hive that it's become unmanagable to take it down via conventional means. But even then, I'd sooner load up an artillery train and go ballistic on them then move in with a nuke or two. Rapid deforestation is one alternative use for nukes that hasn't been discussed all that much, but it is handy if you want to rapidly clear an area.

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Re: Nukes are overpowered and they need to be nerfed in some way

Post by Hannu »

gsezz wrote:I don't think nukes are op. They are completely irrelevant. They aren't good for anything, besides the fun aspect of blowing things up. There are quicker, safer and more efficient ways to clear areas. Nukes are just a gimmick, why nerf that? A special radioactive pollution layer just for balancing such a tiny part of the game would bee far overdone.
I thought huge amount of normal pollution, which would need few lines of code. At least I typically want biters attack as aggressively as possible in that phase of the game to load my defense infrastructure and I do not care about avoiding pollution. I have even used pollution production modules of Bob's mods. Forest fires would also be nice around explosions to give feeling of fire inferno of nuclear war.
Let nukes always hit the player with a critical but not deadly amount of damage. So that you can fire only one or two before you have to regenerate health. This damage should ignore armor and shields. It could be a caused by loading the radioactive warhead into the launcher.
That would only make grindy clearing trips longer. Deaths would be easy to avoid.

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Re: Nukes are overpowered and they need to be nerfed in some way

Post by Hannu »

Aeternus wrote:Try clearing a forest with Destroyer drones Medu
Have devs increased their power? They became very unhandy, underpowered and expensive after flame thrower and nukes and I have not tried them in many versions.

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