Automatically landfill when placing blueprints/ghosts

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Re: Automatically landfill when placing blueprints/ghosts

Post by mrvn »

The mods description sounds like it is destructive to the blueprint. But maybe that's just bad description. Have to try this.

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Re: Automatically landfill when placing blueprints/ghosts

Post by Optera »

Blueprints can only store one type of tile, either concrete or landfill.
Mods that take the blueprint to add landfill will always result in two blueprints that have to be placed. Once for landfill and then for tiles from the original bp.

The problem with more elegant solutions is lack of support through base mechanics.
Tiles creating land underneath them are placable on water, but not over land.
Allowing placement of concrete without filling land underneath creates death traps, Creative Mode allows this. Removing his concrete, e.g. upgrading from concrete to reinforced concrete, destroys entities on top and kills player characters.

Unless we get concrete to implicitly place landfill as base game mechanic, as mrvn wanted in this threads op, the double blueprint approach is the best workaround.

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Re: Automatically landfill when placing blueprints/ghosts

Post by mrvn »

I don't mind placing 2 blueprints. Just as long as it doesn't destroy the original when making the landfill blueprint. Ideally it would just be a hotkey to place the landfill for a blueprint without actually creating a second permanent blueprint at all.

I actually think it's best if you place all the landfill first without any of the entities. Then you can run around and place the landfill without anything getting in the way. If the entities where added from the start then they would block the path a lot of the time.

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Re: Automatically landfill when placing blueprints/ghosts

Post by Zavian »

I haven't been playing recently, (I'm been playing other games atm), so my memory of the current vanilla 0.17 mechanics is a little fuzzy. (From memory early in 0.17, placing blueprint over water would queue landfill, but I think that was reverted).

Would anything break in vanilla if the devs changed force placing a blueprint over water to automatically place (ghost) landfill tiles, with the structures also queued to be placed on top?

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Re: Automatically landfill when placing blueprints/ghosts

Post by mrvn »

Zavian wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:21 am
I haven't been playing recently, (I'm been playing other games atm), so my memory of the current vanilla 0.17 mechanics is a little fuzzy. (From memory early in 0.17, placing blueprint over water would queue landfill, but I think that was reverted).

Would anything break in vanilla if the devs changed force placing a blueprint over water to automatically place (ghost) landfill tiles, with the structures also queued to be placed on top?
That's what we are requesting they do.

Nothing should break. But currently you can't place a ghost of an entity on water even if it has ghost landfill. And you can only have one tile ghost at a time. So landfill + cement is impossible. It will always be a two pass process. Three passes if you have an entity that e.g. can only be build on cement.

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Robots can place landfill

Post by EpicPuppy613 »

TL;DR
Robots can place landfill for building over water
What?
Robots can place landfill when building stuff over water. (ex. placing train tracks, building an island base) Instead of placing landfill yourself(really hard with diagonals), in the blueprint/ghost planner, robots will automatically place landfill underneath. Alternatively, the player could automatically place landfill when building tracks or buildings.
Why?
This could be useful because you may want to have a train cross a lake to get to an island(and back). Also, you don't have to place every single piece of landfill(and not have it messy).

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Re: Robots can place landfill

Post by Loewchen »

Robots do already place landfill, I assume what you actually want is landfill ghosts to be automatically placed when placing a blueprint on water?

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Re: Robots can place landfill

Post by slippycheeze »

Loewchen wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:34 pm
Robots do already place landfill, I assume what you actually want is landfill ghosts to be automatically placed when placing a blueprint on water?
I'd guess that too. Especially given I place vastly more landfill with robots than by hand, thank you ghosts.

Also, I'd wager, that they don't want the limitations that the existing mods ("Landfill Everything", IIRC, being the one I use) have, where they can't add landfill without disrupting existing tiles. Sadly, limitations of the engine / blueprint data structure mean that this is, right now, on the rather difficult side to change, must as we might like it.

I just use the mod, which'll put landfill under any tile (optionally) and entity, so I can place one landfilled, then again to build on top, if I don't have tiles in the design. If I do I need only discard the version in my hand, grab a fresh library copy, and drop it down once the landfill ghosts are done. Since I rarely use non-functional tiles (eg: indicators, etc, rather than cosmetics) this works fairly well for me.

I would certainly be happy to see it improved, I just don't think it is likely based on past developer comments. -_-

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Re: Automatically landfill when placing blueprints/ghosts

Post by Koub »

[Koub] Merged topics with same suggestion.
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Re: Automatically landfill when placing blueprints/ghosts

Post by Ranger_Aurelien »

I have a few Chunk-sized blueprints for things such as rail stackers large nuclear and solar plants. I'd like to carefully align where it goes, then tell the robots to "go to it" ONCE. If I have to walk away, wait for them to get 10000 landfill it could take a long time, then I return and have to re-align it again and hope I can match exactly the same position.
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Re: Automatically landfill when placing blueprints/ghosts

Post by mrvn »

Ranger_Aurelien wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:47 pm
I have a few Chunk-sized blueprints for things such as rail stackers large nuclear and solar plants. I'd like to carefully align where it goes, then tell the robots to "go to it" ONCE. If I have to walk away, wait for them to get 10000 landfill it could take a long time, then I return and have to re-align it again and hope I can match exactly the same position.
That part you could mod easily with some player interaction. First time you place the blueprint it would add a special blueprint marker entity that would allow you to place the same blueprint in stages. First stage just landfill/waterfill. Second stage path tiles. Third stage power poles. Fourth stage other entities. Fifth stage trains. As an example. A final option would remove the marker.

Having it advance to the next stage automatically could be done too but might be too UPS heavy.

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Re: Automatically landfill when placing blueprints/ghosts

Post by EnerJi »

mrvn wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:26 pm
TL;DR
When placing a blueprint with shift or a ghost over water the game should add ghosts for landfill automatically.
This would be terrifically useful. Anyone know whether this is on the agenda for post-1.0 support?

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Re: Automatically landfill when placing blueprints/ghosts

Post by ssilk »

What should happen, when you have no landfill (researched, asssembled) yet?
Or another example: I place a wall blueprint, use shift to remove the obstacles and when I got to the lake I don’t need to built on water, because the lake is my natural wall.

This makes no sense to me. If this is implemented, then with another modifier key.
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Re: Automatically landfill when placing blueprints/ghosts

Post by Koub »

ssilk wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:50 am
What should happen, when you have no landfill (researched, asssembled) yet?
What happens when you have a blueprint of something you haven't researched yet ?
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Re: Robots can place landfill

Post by NotRexButCaesar »

Loewchen wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:34 pm
Robots do already place landfill, I assume what you actually want is landfill ghosts to be automatically placed when placing a blueprint on water?
that is what everyone is saying/asking for
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Re: Automatically landfill when placing blueprints/ghosts

Post by mrvn »

Since you can include landfill in blueprints and the LandfillEverything mod can add that on the fly there doesn't need to be a special key or anything for that part. There could be a checkbox in the blueprint itself to automatically add landfill below entities ([ ] automatically landfill).

What needs to change in the game though is placing a blueprint with a landfill and entity in the same spot. The gams should support adding ghosts for both so bots can bring the landfill and then another bot can bring the entity. It's annyoing that you have to shift-place the bluebrint to get the landfill placed on water, then wait to be placed and then place the blueprint again to get the entities.

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Re: Automatically landfill when placing blueprints/ghosts

Post by ssilk »

Koub wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:08 am
ssilk wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:50 am
What should happen, when you have no landfill (researched, asssembled) yet?
What happens when you have a blueprint of something you haven't researched yet ?
No, I mean should it try to place the bp (with landfill) anyway? Should it do nothing? (What it will do now) Should it place the ghost-entities without ground?
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Re: Automatically landfill when placing blueprints/ghosts

Post by Koub »

I would expect it would only auto-landfill under any entity that can be builtat the moment it is plonked, and if landfill is not researched yet, behave the sme way a blueprint behaves when trying to place a BP with entities you don't have the tech for yet.
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Re: Automatically landfill when placing blueprints/ghosts

Post by NotRexButCaesar »

ssilk wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:48 am
Koub wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:08 am
ssilk wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:50 am
What should happen, when you have no landfill (researched, asssembled) yet?
What happens when you have a blueprint of something you haven't researched yet ?
No, I mean should it try to place the bp (with landfill) anyway? Should it do nothing? (What it will do now) Should it place the ghost-entities without ground?
It would assume the current behavior.
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Re: Automatically landfill when placing blueprints/ghosts

Post by ssilk »

Well, then - as said - this is a bit illogical when I place a wall-blueprint and use shift to remove the obstacles (trees, stone...) and when I got to the lake I don’t need to built on water, because the lake is my natural wall.

Shift-key has with this suggestion then a double functionality. I need to decide, if if don’t press shift-key and remove the obstacles myself, or if I live with the wall in the water. :)
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