Cliff climbing (and angled belts)

[voddan]

Factorio 0.16 added some cool cliffs, and I think everyone expects some sweet game mechanics around them

Cliff climbing

The character definitely should be able to climb a cliff, up and down.
I mean, what is more fun than running from biters, climbing a cliff, turning around and shooting them from above?

Btw, climbing up and down the cliff can be done with the same animation playing forwards and backwards respectively.

Cliff climbing IRL

High-angled conveyor belts and pipes

Factorio needs a way to incorporate cliffs into the factory desighn without blowing them up.
Electric lines already work with the cliffs, so now we need to adapt conveyors and pipes.
There are options to make underground belts work with cliffs, but I think it will be much more fun enable normal belts to go up and down cliffs.

A high-angled belt or pipe shouldn't be a separate item, but rather an ability to place a belt or pipe on a cliff with animation depicting and angled movement.

High-angled conveyor belts IRL

What do you think?
How soon can we expect those additions?
Are there any inherent problems with implementing those mechancs?

[Atlas]

I see a problem with projection. The cliffs are fake. If a pipe (or a belt) is running in the east-west direction and climbs up a cliff, then then the pipe tile on top of a cliff would have to be a little closer to the top of a screen, than the tile on the bottom.

[GottZ]

tile on top of a cliff would have to be a little closer to the top of a screen, than the tile on the bottom.

i strongly agree to this. it would just mess up perspective and essentially break the current grid system. keep in mind the whole game is running in an alligned grid. nothing is loose except biters, players, items on the ground (partially) and vehicles.

[voddan]

I see a problem with projection. The cliffs are fake. If a pipe (or a belt) is running in the east-west direction and climbs up a cliff, then then the pipe tile on top of a cliff would have to be a little closer to the top of a screen, than the tile on the bottom.

That complicates things.
On one hand, belts look fairly natural in the position you described if the higher tiles are moved one tile to the north (top of the screen).
On the other hand it produces strange effects like some distances are shorter on the cliff than under it, or underground pipes are misaligned.

Here on the right of the screenshot the blue belt looks like a very natural ring, however its right side contains more tiles than its left.
This is demonstrated on the left side with the yellow belt.
Additionally, the underground pipe and underground belt (which are connected) look wrong because of the cliff.

[Atlas]

I'm kinda disappointed too, I'd like to see some better connection to cliffs.

[mp0011]

The only real solution is to make REAL cliffs...

Each tile may have additional variable assigned to it at map generation: height. May be positive or negative. Negative = water.
Basically, game will work as now, just X and Y values of each entities will be shifted by the value of it's tile height:



Now, if entity is searching matching entity by its coordinates, it will find one, even if on higher level...
Belts on y=2 will connect with underground belts by default.

This require to add new entities like stairs (carved with simple pickaxe) or slopes, because it would be not possible to merge different heights, like now...
Each level must be surrounded by cliff tiles to avoid possibility of two entities with identical coordinates.

Simplification:
In the lower image - belt on the higher cliff part is in game's memory (and for each calculations), one tile lower than is displayed.
It is just displayed one tile higher, because of tile.z value.

[voddan]

Mp0011 , how will the graphics work in places where a cliff gradually merges into the main level?

Notice how my screenshot has problems with level merges, and yours just doesn't have them at all.

[mp0011]

Each level must be surrounded by cliff tiles to avoid possibility of two entities with identical coordinates.

That's the issue - there should be no such places. There should be new entity, like slope, or stairs...

And some "special cases" for belts or pipes on such slopes. Generally, placing buildings on slopes should be prohibited ("it's to steep").
You may remove cliff if You want, revealing whole new resources maybe...?

Or, on that special cases, maybe entities should be visually shifted up/down by half or 1/3 of tile, or have different graphic?

Also, "angled belts" may fit well on that slopes/stairs. You must however convert cliffside into it with pickaxe, or find "natural" stairs or slopes.

Added possibilities:
- car/tank falling from cliffs
- carve stairs with pickaxe
- use stones to create LONGER slopes for trains
- driving sloppy road visually shifts car up and down as You drive