Modern Underground Pipes/Belts

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Mekronid
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Modern Underground Pipes/Belts

Post by Mekronid »

TL;DR
Improved belts and pipes which reflect the increased capabilities of modern versions of these tools.
What ?
The underground conveyor belts and pipes in Factorio are similar to those used in the early 1900s. Older machinery and pipes were limited by things like "gas vents," "maintenance tunnels," "fuel/grease lines," and a host of other situations which prevented these tools from being used underground effectively. While many of these same things are required on modern machinery, they tend to be automated. With enough sensors and automatic repair machines they also don't require engineers patrolling for breakdowns and leaks. What need is there for service access?

So let's compare yesterday with today!

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Basic Information:
  • Modern underground pipes and belts will be activated by a pair of late-game technologies.
  • Modern pipes and belts will be planned using the logistics planner similar to placing rails, with the exception that modern underground pipes and belts may only be placed with construction bots. What, did you want to dig all that yourself? :roll:
  • The first placement puts a "tap" on both ends (a pipe to ground or belt to ground) and then moves the tap according to where further logistics plans are made.
  • Removing the tap manually will still allow you to extend the underground pipe or belt.
  • Once all taps on the modern pipe or belt structure are removed, construction bots will treat the entire underground structure as being in "deconstruct" mode.
  • Replacing old-era pipes and belts will occur automatically if their old-era counterparts are connected and on the same axis.
  • When auto-replace occurs, perpendicular old-era pipes will be treated like a "tap," while perpendicular belts will be ignored. If curved sections are implemented then replacing old-era structures with curved sections could get complex.
  • Length is almost unlimited! Throughput loss is minuscule in modern high-pressure pipes. However, taking advantage of this feature will require a high-pressure pump, which does not work if the preceding pipe runs out of fluid or gas. In this situation the modern pipe will revert back to how your old-era pipes currently function.
  • Mousing over the underground structure will provide a small "sonar view." Highlighting any aboveground "taps" on the structure will highlight the entire structure. Now go try finding the other end of the modern underground pipe you forgot to connect earlier! :lol:
  • Pipe taps can be made of old era pipes only if the modern pipe is not highly pressurized. If an old-era pipe receives high-pressure fluid or gas, the old-era pipe nearest to the pressurized pipe will be destroyed with an explosion.
  • You get a fiery explosion if you overpressure oil and a life-extinguishing explosion if you overpressure sulfuric acid. Other combinations might be possible.
  • When two modern underground belts intersect, the belt placed first will remain straight while the belt placed second will dump its cargo onto the first. If this belt is extended past the belt it intersects then the remainder will turn into a third belt that simply does not carry any cargo. However, its direction can be manually changed independent of the second belt.
  • Old-era above ground belts cannot interact with a modern underground belt unless a second modern underground belt is built perpendicular. This would create an intersection of modern underground belts and a single tap off to the side, allowing you to dump things from the old-era belt onto the modern belt. Old-era underground belts will not work when they intersect with modern underground belts; they simply cannot function without an above-ground motor on either end.
  • Modern underground parts will be produced 20 at a time using at least 50 steel and 4 coal. Other parts will depend on the recipe and preference.
  • The assembler will be using a custom carburization and sintering process via 900C°+ heat pipes from nuclear power. Mild steel is not desirable for high-wear applications! Luckily these carburizing and sintering processes do not require the same high temperatures as smelting steel. However, the assembler lacks the built-in heating capabilities of a furnace, thus it requires a heat pipe input. (Incidentally, ~850-950C is approximately the temperature of actual carburizing, ~950C is approximately the lower limit of actual steel sintering, and ~1000C is approximately the temperature of an actual high-temperature nuclear reactor. Funny how that works out.)
Why?
Simply because trains work best for long distances while belts and pipes work best for short distances. There is no "middle ground" except to lay underground pipes with nodules sticking up everywhere or a long span of belts across the landscape. All three of these options can make the affected terrain annoying to navigate. As an added bonus, a long-length underground belt or pipe can patch up even the worst of spaghetti messes or make for some very intuitive and compact designs.

Finally, even if you plan things out, sometimes the plans don't work as intended. Ex: I mistakenly placed four work areas too close together, then wanted to move the ore inputs to the top end of the base. Though it looks passable now, the image below is only after two hours of moving things around. If I'd had better underground belts, I'd avoid the mess and just route the ores under the furnaces. Also, those oil pipes are a pain to walk through no matter what I do. My next oil refinery will be near a large body of water, where I never walk...

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Last edited by Mekronid on Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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steinio
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Re: Modern Underground Pipes/Belts

Post by steinio »

A pipe is still a pipe, no matter how it's brought into position.

Do you propose an automated belt /pipe laying Tool?
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/beltplanner
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Mekronid
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Re: Modern Underground Pipes/Belts

Post by Mekronid »

steinio wrote:A pipe is still a pipe, no matter how it's brought into position.
If you're referring to my usage of "tap" that is simply to create a common moniker for the inference of an offshoot of a fluidic transport system. Also, it does have some technical use in pipe layouts... Which makes it relevant if you consider a belt a conveyor of solids moving in a fluid pattern.
steinio wrote:Do you propose an automated belt /pipe laying Tool?
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/beltplanner
No, I do not. What I propose is a separate system with its own logic and logistics. The existing solutions are obviated by my suggestion anyway.

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Re: Modern Underground Pipes/Belts

Post by McDuff »

This seems like it would involve a new layer or two in the game. I think that would be a cool idea but you'd need to think about how to visually see what's in underground pipes or underground belts.

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Re: Modern Underground Pipes/Belts

Post by Mekronid »

McDuff wrote:This seems like it would involve a new layer or two in the game. I think that would be a cool idea but you'd need to think about how to visually see what's in underground pipes or underground belts.
You can look for the belts and pipes themselves with the "sonar view" I mentioned before. But you can't see what's in them. That's intentional: The added ease of maneuvering items around the base is offset by the increased cost and the increased difficulty of managing what's underground. Since you can't make complex paths of belts with these new items, and since pipes are typically only a single fluid, it doesn't add too much complexity. Still, if you toss junk onto a modern underground belt, you just can't remove it until it reaches the other side. If you mistakenly join two networks of underground pipes, you use the logistic planner to remove the connection. It's very logical and simple.

Of course, if you can't find the problem area, then you'll just have to tear it up and start over. That is intentional as well: the underground has never been an easy place for humans to maneuver. Magically knowing everything that goes on down there would just feel silly and make my proposed aspect of the game too easy.

I originally supported the "pneumatic tubes" idea, which in theory would allow you to see the contents. But these have been discarded in most modern factories because of their confusing and unreliable nature. While they represent convenience they also have a tendency to become a sprawling mess that takes more effort to keep running than to just move the items normally. Most factories which DO still use pneumatic tubes only do so for straight long distance travel.

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