Auto-Request

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Dreepa
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Auto-Request

Post by Dreepa »

Current:
If you don't have the stuff in your inventory, you cannot craft.
You get a message: "Not enough ingredients."

Problem:
You need to request the things from robo-network each individually, craft, then delete request. -> Annoying overhead in UX

Idea:
When you click (or shift-click maybe?) a recipe in your crafting menu that is greyed out, the bots auto-deliver what is needed. If they cannot deliver, they cancel the job after 10 seconds, and the alarm-beep notifies you.
Could even be an upgrade in the tech tree: "Crafting auto delivery"
Last edited by Dreepa on Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Easy QoL Improvement: Auto-Request!

Post by VinWij »

I actually like this. It does feel a little like moving your inventory into the cloud, which is an interesting thought. The building of blueprints is an example of this already, since none of the stuff you build needs to be in your inventory, as long as you have robot coverage. Still, it's useful for that odd time I build something that I don't always carry the ingredients for, like a train.

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Re: Easy QoL Improvement: Auto-Request!

Post by JohnyDL »

Except the game does everything it can to push you to autocrafting and while the idea is simple, it really isn't.

Let's say you're crafting a satellite what should it request, the direct ingredients for the satellite or the things that make those or the things that make those or everything that is needed that the player can't craft themselves. Crafting some things from nearly raw ingredients would literally take days, and you 'could' do it but not have all the ingredients delivered 'in 10 seconds' instead if you had enough to start crafting some sub component like copper to wire for circuit boards should it start you on the path and when it reaches the 'failure' point stop instead? but that would require crafting items to have ingredients stored in the inventory rather than in the crafting... it's not as simple as it could be, and it's a QOL for hand crafting which the devs do everything they reasonably can to discourage

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Re: Easy QoL Improvement: Auto-Request!

Post by AntiBlueQuirk »

I think a better option would be to add a toggle in the crafting area to change it to "Request Mode". In Request Mode, clicking on something to craft will instead make a one time request from the current logistics network if available, and only craft it if this isn't possible. Presumably, there would be a visual indication if something wasn't available to request. This would also provide a quick answer to the question, "Do I/we have X in the logistics network?"

Dreepa
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Re: Easy QoL Improvement: Auto-Request!

Post by Dreepa »

JohnyDL wrote:Except the game does everything it can to push you to autocrafting and while the idea is simple, it really isn't.
True, but since I still order a lot of red / green / blue chips, engine and whatnot to craft Tanks, Buggies, Locomotives, Powerarmor, Wagons and whatnot, it is not 100% the case :)

JohnyDL wrote:Let's say you're crafting a satellite what should it request, the direct ingredients for the satellite or the things that make those or the things that make those or everything that is needed that the player can't craft themselves.
It would need to go down the chain. Like the ME network in minecraft mods. However, for it to work it would need to know what's inside the network. Could be done with introducing a network storage controller. Where you then would wire all your roboport network crates together and feed the controller, so it always is aware what is in stock.
If something isn't in stock, it goes down the chain to the next lower material needed, until it reaches copper/iron or cancels (e.g. stuff with lubricant). :)

Also, you wouldn't really do handcrafting much, as you said, it would take hours. It is more the opposite: Ultimate automation. Just like the ME network in minecraft. You "order" something and your crafting empire reacts fully automated and delivers your stuff. You just craft the last step in your inventory. You would still need to make sure the stuff is available through crates and logistics.

But you're right, I agree, it is not really that "easy" (changed title :) ). It requires some more thought. And probably is not a good effort/benefit ratio, true. Idea withdrawn! :P

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Re: Auto-Request

Post by AntiBlueQuirk »

AntiBlueQuirk wrote:I think a better option would be to add a toggle in the crafting area to change it to "Request Mode". In Request Mode, clicking on something to craft will instead make a one time request from the current logistics network if available, and only craft it if this isn't possible. Presumably, there would be a visual indication if something wasn't available to request. This would also provide a quick answer to the question, "Do I/we have X in the logistics network?"
I like this idea so much, I made a mockup!
factorio_request_mode.png
factorio_request_mode.png (403.99 KiB) Viewed 3250 times
This would solve a lot of problems with handcrafting and logistics, I think:
  • If the player needs to make a "one-time request", this makes it easy, as opposed to the current flow, which is: make request, wait for stuff, cancel request.
  • The player doesn't handcraft stuff their factory can produce. As long as it's available, they can easily request it instead.
  • Things that are not craftable by hand, such as blue belts and concrete, become available through the crafting interface.
  • The player gets a nice easy overview of what things are available from their network, in a familiar context.
  • There are some players that like to "check all the boxes". :) This feature would make it easy for them to determine what items are not available through logistics.
The player's inventory would just generally become more integrated with their factory, or "the cloud" as VinWij put it. In a sense, making the logistics network more accessible acts as an upgrade to the player's inventory space and handcrafting capabilities, which I know the developers are hesitant to directly add. Adding this feature would in fact help discourage handcrafting, as the player would be able to request things just as easily through the same interface. I'm actually not really a fan of Dreepa's original suggestion (auto-requesting), but adding this feature would make the problem work-flow a lot simpler. (Out of rare ingredients? Just make a one-time request!)

JohnyDL
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Re: Auto-Request

Post by JohnyDL »

I like the idea of "Craft or Request" when clicking on something, I generally have a bunch of stuff in my storage system and I'd like to request that before crafting in an emergency but this order could be toggled. You click the button to get 1 or 5 of an item, then it attempts to order items from logistic, if not possible attempts to craft if not possible tell user, or the alternative order, attempts to craft, if not possible attempts logistics if not possible tell user. Either way you get the partial ME thing. You don't get to auto order the parts from the system but that's the tricky part of the QOL you suggested. You can always do it piecemeal yourself from the crafting grid rather than the check and order and cancel and repeat for the current request system, the 'always keep my inventory with' rather than 'I need this one thing this one time' requests.

ME also has some limitations like needing or not certain levels of stock to beable to craft, some recepies being there but 'automatic' rather than 'on demand' and not being able to 'predict' or 'generate' those things for the crafting CPUs, for example you might not have a way to craft diamonds that your ME system knows about directly but because mystical agriculture autocrafts the essence into diamonds before inserting to ME you can tell it a 'waste time' recipe, like smelt some glass, will generate diamonds, which can't be done in ME. In factorio you have the same problem if you 'request' 200 engines this way but your autocrafting system only stores 50 in reserve you're told "impossible" when really it's "it'll happen eventually"

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Re: Auto-Request

Post by nuhll »

why is that not already implemented? It would be so cool if you could "auto request" missing stuff.

Make it hard, make it costly, make it late game, but include it! :D
- special research, maybe even different tiers like max 50 requestet items on tier 1 (you get the point)
- maybe you need to include it in your suit (some sort of computer?)


The reason why i love factorio is, the whole "go to chest" is the most annoying thing for me in every game, factorio has a SOLUTION mid - late game -> BOTS! Thats what keeps me engaged in this game. I can now build a factory for every item in the game and request it, but still this is "more" annoying then just shift clicking something and if possible, it gets directly delivered "how many times you clicked" or if not in network you get the "if possibel" things deliverd one time which are neccessary to craft that item.

Im not so hard talking about the usefullness in vanilla, but in modded minecraft.... this would be REALLY handy if you ask me. Maybe dont include it in vanilla but atleast give mod authors a possibilty to add this (i guess its not possible atm)

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Re: Auto-Request

Post by ssilk »

I think this is possible. There is the auto-trash mod, which already can change the personal logistics. And a mod-author can include a special UI to craft items by requesting the ingrediences (and then automatically craft them). But I think it is really hard to make that so, that it is really useful. Let's say you want to build a satelite and you have nearly all parts, but only some items are missing. How would you know, which is the best strategy to build the satelite: Request the missing part (which might be assembled withing some seconds), or requesting the items to craft that missing part yourself?

That cannot be answered in realtime (in Factorio). Therefore this idea will never be implemented as suggested. There will be always some flaws, some stupid requests.

And it is against the game-principle of Factorio to automate everything you can. It makes much more sense to automate production of satelite instead of crafting it yourself. The logistic network is exactly there to do this job quite efficient and simple.

So I'm not convinced, that this is a good idea. :)
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nuhll
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Re: Auto-Request

Post by nuhll »

You dont get it.

To stay at satelite:

If you have satelites in your factory, request it (but via a simple shift click instead of selecting it)

If not: try to get the direct ingrediments for it.

If not: try to get the ingrediments for the "direct ingrediments".

You understand what i mean?

I mean like it goes from top to bottom. A logic would be cool, but unneccessary. A simple from top to bottom would be sufficient i could imagine.

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Re: Auto-Request

Post by ssilk »

Hm. The point I was trying to make was this: if you want to craft a satellite, the anti-pattern is “craft yourself”, not how to get he ingredients for that.
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Re: Auto-Request

Post by FuryoftheStars »

I kind of agree with ssilk here. Automating the hand crafting process I feel goes a bit too far.

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Re: Auto-Request

Post by nuhll »

I understand that hand crafting is a important part of the game. I dont want to skip it. Just add a late game improvement.

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Re: Auto-Request

Post by FuryoftheStars »

Well, that's the thing: late game, you shouldn't have to be handcrafting. As it is, the personal logistics & trash system... which no longer has to be researched... already trivializes much of this. No need to go to chests... just request the final product.

But really, I feel like this should be a mod realm change. Making this change in the base game I feel goes too far. Up there with the "quick start" mods.

But that's my personal feelings.

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Re: Auto-Request

Post by nuhll »

yeah.

You can everytime you need a item (or multiple) click on logistic request, search the item, and request it. Super intuitive ;-) - after you requested it you need to remove it (very confusing) or set it to 0.

Would be much cooler to set a "temporary" request :roll: like *something* left click. Build into that feature could be "if not avaible, send the next avaible items"

I need 5 machines:

U have them in network:
*something* left click 5 times creates 5 deliveries for that machine.

U dont have:
*something* left click 5 times creates X deliveries for 50 pipes, 20 Steel, 20 stone, 5 pumps.

I would really put that behind late game tech, buildings and or items for your armor.

I think im not good at describing what i mean

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Re: Auto-Request

Post by shopt »

I think it would be much more in the spirit of the game, and useful in general, to have "one-shot" logistics requests which are deleted, or drop back to the regular amount, once satisfied. I'm usually requesting items to be able build stuff somewhere I don't have bot coverage, not to handcraft. Haven't looked at how the UI would work for that though. Can't think of a clean way, maybe a third "temporary minimum" to go alongside minimum and maximum.

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BlueTemplar
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Re: Auto-Request

Post by BlueTemplar »

Amazing idea - some rare ingredients are not worth wasting a stack on in your inventory (like melamine in pY), others cannot be crafted by hand...
FuryoftheStars wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:10 am
Well, that's the thing: late game, you shouldn't have to be handcrafting. As it is, the personal logistics & trash system... which no longer has to be researched... already trivializes much of this. No need to go to chests... just request the final product.

But really, I feel like this should be a mod realm change. Making this change in the base game I feel goes too far. Up there with the "quick start" mods.

But that's my personal feelings.
Not much trivializing about that, since it involves setting a robust logistic network first !
(As already mentioned, should be probably a yellow = utility tech ?)
nuhll wrote:
Fri Dec 31, 2021 12:06 pm
You dont get it.

To stay at satelite:

If you have satelites in your factory, request it (but via a simple shift click instead of selecting it)

If not: try to get the direct ingrediments for it.

If not: try to get the ingrediments for the "direct ingrediments".

You understand what i mean?

I mean like it goes from top to bottom. A logic would be cool, but unneccessary. A simple from top to bottom would be sufficient i could imagine.
And this is IMHO going too far into enabling handcrafting compared to setting up automation for it.
(Also not including that might gives some extra room to game designers to prevent "abuse" of the handcrafting system, by chaining non-handraftable items ?)

And anyway it's not as straightforward as one could think - in the crafting menu, you are clicking not on an item, but on a specific *recipe* for an item - other recipes might be available ! (For instance when playing pY you have to be careful to have transport belts in inventory before handcrafting, say, underground belt, or the auto-handcrafting will try to use the more advanced - but less effective for a long time - rubber belt recipe !)

It could get even worse with circular recipes... (IIRC Angels (or was that Sea Block ?) had a bug for a while with handcrafting due to a wood cellulose loop...)
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Re: Auto-Request

Post by nuhll »

maybe that idea is a "factorio 2"

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Re: Auto-Request

Post by BlueTemplar »

Or maybe for the Factorio expansion that Wube is currently (?) working on ? :P
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Re: Auto-Request

Post by ssilk »

shopt wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:20 am
I think it would be much more in the spirit of the game, and useful in general, to have "one-shot" logistics requests which are deleted, or drop back to the regular amount, once satisfied. I'm usually requesting items to be able build stuff somewhere I don't have bot coverage, not to handcraft. Haven't looked at how the UI would work for that though. Can't think of a clean way, maybe a third "temporary minimum" to go alongside minimum and maximum.
There are mods, that can do such requests for blueprints. Because it’s easy to calculate. It’s quite more difficult to calculate such a request for items. And again it shouldn’t, because where is the problem to build an assembly, a blue chest and feed it with an inserter!?
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