Shieldsystems

[NeXuS]

TL;DR

I'd like to suggest the implementation of shields. These have the same function as walls, but consists (and need) only energy.

What ?

I suggest the implementation of a shield system for walls or greater areas. These systems could strengthen the defense of every factory a lot more, but at high energy costs.
The images below show, what I mean.

Image of an curved shield

Kurve.PNG (3.99 KiB) Viewed 5386 times

and

Image of a normal shield

Gerade.PNG (1.87 KiB) Viewed 5386 times

In the images you see a 1x1 shield generator (full orange) creating a shield barrier 3 spaces away with a length of 5 spaces. So this generator might be placed behind walls or buildings to create and additional defense.
The curved shield is for the edges and looks better, than the sharp 90° angle you could realize with two normal barriers.

Why ?

Mainly because you already have a personal shield for the armor integrated in the game. Where is the point not to maximize the output and use as a base defense?

Best wishes,
NeXuS

[bobingabout]

Disadvantages:
Constant drain on energy. (Drain like on things like the turrets, and inserters, where it costs energy just to have them, even when they're doing nothing)
Drains excessive energy to charge/recharge when damaged.

Advantages:
No need to be repaired when damaged, like a wall would, as it just drains more energy to recharge.

[Jap2.0]

I assume that enough damage would temporarily disbale the shield?

[Nova]

Just because I love every kind of shield should be enough reason for them.

Ever played Supreme Commander? Oh boy, that shields... <3

[Tekky]

I like the original poster's suggestion very much.

I assume that enough damage would temporarily disbale the shield?

Yes, that is an important point.

When should shields fail?

Only when they run out of energy? That would make energy management (i.e. circuit networks) a lot more interesting, because it raises questions as to whether to give certain factory assemblers priority or whether the shields should be given full priority, even if it means that half of the factory comes to a standstill due to low energy.

Or should shield generators have some kind of additional damage limit, so that you need to build additional shield generators for more protection?

[Jap2.0]

I like the original poster's suggestion very much.

I assume that enough damage would temporarily disbale the shield?

Yes, that is an important point.

When should shields fail?

Only when they run out of energy? That would make energy management (i.e. circuit networks) a lot more interesting, because it raises questions as to whether to give certain factory assemblers priority or whether the shields should be given full priority, even if it means that half of the factory comes to a standstill due to low energy.

Or should shield generators have some kind of additional damage limit, so that you need to build additional shield generators for more protection?

If shield falure is based entirely on lack of energy, then you have to have something to prevent anyone with a few nuclear power plants from having an impenetrable base.

So either:

• 1. Have them fail after a certain amount of damage
  2. Have a limit to their energy intake
  3. Something else

[NeXuS]

Of course I have played Supreme Commander.

A shield system should work collaps after a certain amount of damage. Then there should be a small break before starting to reload.
As long as Shields are not broken, they will continously regenerate shieldpoints, at the cost of more energy than in simple standby mode. The amount of regeneration is independent from the amount of available power. That means that a more of power would not lead to a more of regeneration. But less power leads to less regeneration.

I'm glad that you like my idea.

[Coffee2Code]

Don't add a standby mode but allow it to be turned on and off by the circuit network instead.

[olafthecat]

I like this, I hate repairing walls.
I dislike having to supply my bots with repairing materials.

[mrvn]

I like the original poster's suggestion very much.

I assume that enough damage would temporarily disbale the shield?

Yes, that is an important point.

When should shields fail?

Only when they run out of energy? That would make energy management (i.e. circuit networks) a lot more interesting, because it raises questions as to whether to give certain factory assemblers priority or whether the shields should be given full priority, even if it means that half of the factory comes to a standstill due to low energy.

Or should shield generators have some kind of additional damage limit, so that you need to build additional shield generators for more protection?

A shield should withstand a certain number of hitpoints and resistances and regenerate by drawing energy from the grid. Both of those should be limited (like accumulators and roboports having a maximum recharge rate). This would also lend itself well to multiple research levels for hitpoints, resistances and recharge rate and shield radius. I don't think a linear shield makes sense (physically speaking). Better to have overlapping shields combine to form a more or less straight line.

I can also see two failure modes:

1) the shield generator explodes when the shield fails.
2) just the shield fails and needs some extra time to reestablish (maybe reestablished once fully charge again). Meanwhile the aliens will zero in on the generator and attack it.

I think balancing shields will have to be done carefully though. Since they hold off aliens they make turrets much more powerful, just like walls. But they do not need repairs so successive attacks won't wear them down. Also what happens with overlapping shields? Will they combine to a double strength shield? Will one shield dominate and fail first?

I would suggest one more thing: Shields could be somewhat transparent, only soaking up part of the damage of ranged weapons. So something behind a shield being attacked by a strong alien still takes damage. But the damaged is reduced by the shield intensity. For weaker aliens the shield soaks up everything. So more a damage - 5 kind of thing than damage = 50%. Think of it as the shield being overloaded in a spot without failing completely.

[NeXuS]

Don't add a standby mode but allow it to be turned on and off by the circuit network instead.

By standby mode I mean a basic level of energy usage. So they need energy if active, and more energy if currently regenerating.
Like lights they should be capable of being switched off and on by signals.

A shield should withstand a certain number of hitpoints and resistances and regenerate by drawing energy from the grid. Both of those should be limited (like accumulators and roboports having a maximum recharge rate). This would also lend itself well to multiple research levels for hitpoints, resistances and recharge rate and shield radius. I don't think a linear shield makes sense (physically speaking). Better to have overlapping shields combine to form a more or less straight line.

I can also see two failure modes:

1) the shield generator explodes when the shield fails.
2) just the shield fails and needs some extra time to reestablish (maybe reestablished once fully charge again). Meanwhile the aliens will zero in on the generator and attack it.

I think balancing shields will have to be done carefully though. Since they hold off aliens they make turrets much more powerful, just like walls. But they do not need repairs so successive attacks won't wear them down. Also what happens with overlapping shields? Will they combine to a double strength shield? Will one shield dominate and fail first?

I would suggest one more thing: Shields could be somewhat transparent, only soaking up part of the damage of ranged weapons. So something behind a shield being attacked by a strong alien still takes damage. But the damaged is reduced by the shield intensity. For weaker aliens the shield soaks up everything. So more a damage - 5 kind of thing than damage = 50%. Think of it as the shield being overloaded in a spot without failing completely.

Agreed, the max amount of shieldpoints should be limited.

Jep, linear shields are a little bit weird (from a SciFi point of view), but I think in this game they would fit, very well. Overlapping is still possible, because you have three free spaces between generator and barrier, so you might place other generaters behind the first one to get three lines of shields. Stacking in the form of two shields sharing the same space should be prohibited, because this will make shields far too strong.

I dislike option 1), because this will again force players to repair. Option 2) is much better.

Your idea with partial transparent shields is interesting.
Normally I would agree, due to different damage types (explosives, laser, bullets), but enemies in this game only have one damage type.
Reducing incoming ranged damage by a specific amount of damage sounds good though. This would completely absorb small (and perhaps) medium spitter damage, but letting small or medium amount of damage from big and behemoth spitters through the shield.

[mrvn]

Your idea with partial transparent shields is interesting.
Normally I would agree, due to different damage types (explosives, laser, bullets), but enemies in this game only have one damage type.
Reducing incoming ranged damage by a specific amount of damage sounds good though. This would completely absorb small (and perhaps) medium spitter damage, but letting small or medium amount of damage from big and behemoth spitters through the shield.

Or level one shields absorb small spitters, level two for medium spitters, level three for behemoth spitters, ... With the Natural Evolution mod there are more levels of aliens so more shields levels make sense there.

Shields could even have infinite research with each level adding some more damage that can be absorbed.

[NeXuS]

Or level one shields absorb small spitters, level two for medium spitters, level three for behemoth spitters, ... With the Natural Evolution mod there are more levels of aliens so more shields levels make sense there.

Shields could even have infinite research with each level adding some more damage that can be absorbed.

Well, I like the idea of upgrading shield systems via technologies. Neverthelesse I would put the damage absorption aside for a while and just focus on "electric walls".



So let's think about some points (I will update the initial post after having results down here):

• Where to put the initial shield tech?
• What dependencies does this tech need to have?
• How much should the recipe cost and what elements do it have to consist of?
• What are the stats for shields? (MaxShieldPoints, EnergyUsageWhileStandby, EnergyUsageWhileRegen, ShieldRegenPerSecond)
• What happens if you are low on energy (let's say at 60%)?
• What happens if shields reach zero shieldpoints?

If we can define this system here, perhaps we find a modder who is able to reliaze it

[QGamer]

I don't think a linear shield makes sense (physically speaking). Better to have overlapping shields combine to form a more or less straight line.
...
Also what happens with overlapping shields? Will they combine to a double strength shield? Will one shield dominate and fail first?

Jep, linear shields are a little bit weird (from a SciFi point of view), but I think in this game they would fit, very well. Overlapping is still possible, because you have three free spaces between generator and barrier, so you might place other generaters behind the first one to get three lines of shields. Stacking in the form of two shields sharing the same space should be prohibited, because this will make shields far too strong.

So what if I try to place two shield generators so that the shields overlap?
I see a few options here:

1) Share the load: The two generators share the overlapping space, lowering their energy consumption slightly as each one powers half of the shield. If one were to fail completely the other would take over.
2) Take precedence: One generator would take the full power drain of the shield, lowering the energy consumption of the other one. If it fails, the other one takes over.

Either way, I could make a line of shield generators and the total power drain would be based off of the number of generators and the number of blocks the combined shield occupies. The total strength of each segment of shield is the same, but if a generator fails the others will take over. I like both of these options.

3) Combined strength: The shields combine to form a stronger one.

This way, a line of shield generators would make one ultra-strong shield. In my opinion this would be overpowered.

Another question: what happens if a straight and curved shield overlap?

[mrvn]

Here is another idea:

Think of shields as a repelling force and not as a wall or barrier. Physically it makes no sense that 10m from the generator there should suddenly be this impenetrable wall of "force".

Therefore I think shields should be spherical and their strength reduces with the the cube of the radius,or the power required rises with the cube of the radius.

Now then small biters can approach the generator up to radius r1 before being stopped. Medium bitters have more power and can approach till r2 < r1 and so on. The more powerful the alien the closer it can approach. And as long as the alien is within reach of the shield (at some radius the repelling force is so small it's best to say it's 0 so computations don't have to consider all shields worldwide) some of it's energy is needed to fight the repelling force so it can do less damage. The damage prevented would be more close to the generator. Similar to ranged projectiles. They get "slowed down" by the field and loose energy and can do less damage the closer to the generator they go.

Alternatively shields could be some form of mental or pheromone attack. Making the aliens simply not want to attack. It then should have no effect on projectiles. And groups of aliens would have a stronger combined will or emit their own attack pheromones to overcome the shield. Not all would be affected.

I imagine those shields would be good to protect rail lines where aliens have little incentive to attack. They wouldn't loiter on the tracks till a train smacks into them. But not so well against the main base where major pollution makes the aliens so angry they manage to overcome the shields effect or something.

[NeXuS]

So what if I try to place two shield generators so that the shields overlap?
I see a few options here:

1) Share the load: The two generators share the overlapping space, lowering their energy consumption slightly as each one powers half of the shield. If one were to fail completely the other would take over.
2) Take precedence: One generator would take the full power drain of the shield, lowering the energy consumption of the other one. If it fails, the other one takes over.

Either way, I could make a line of shield generators and the total power drain would be based off of the number of generators and the number of blocks the combined shield occupies. The total strength of each segment of shield is the same, but if a generator fails the others will take over. I like both of these options.

3) Combined strength: The shields combine to form a stronger one.

This way, a line of shield generators would make one ultra-strong shield. In my opinion this would be overpowered.

Another question: what happens if a straight and curved shield overlap?

In my opinion each of these options have the same effect: You are able to construct a very strong shield. This is like having three walls upon each other. If one wall is destroyed the next one will take the damage. Plus Shields are regenerating.
I think the easiest option to balance is to not allow overlapping in any way.

Here is another idea:

Think of shields as a repelling force and not as a wall or barrier. Physically it makes no sense that 10m from the generator there should suddenly be this impenetrable wall of "force".

Therefore I think shields should be spherical and their strength reduces with the the cube of the radius,or the power required rises with the cube of the radius.

Now then small biters can approach the generator up to radius r1 before being stopped. Medium bitters have more power and can approach till r2 < r1 and so on. The more powerful the alien the closer it can approach. And as long as the alien is within reach of the shield (at some radius the repelling force is so small it's best to say it's 0 so computations don't have to consider all shields worldwide) some of it's energy is needed to fight the repelling force so it can do less damage. The damage prevented would be more close to the generator. Similar to ranged projectiles. They get "slowed down" by the field and loose energy and can do less damage the closer to the generator they go.

Alternatively shields could be some form of mental or pheromone attack. Making the aliens simply not want to attack. It then should have no effect on projectiles. And groups of aliens would have a stronger combined will or emit their own attack pheromones to overcome the shield. Not all would be affected.

I imagine those shields would be good to protect rail lines where aliens have little incentive to attack. They wouldn't loiter on the tracks till a train smacks into them. But not so well against the main base where major pollution makes the aliens so angry they manage to overcome the shields effect or something.

Here I'm out. As a big SciFi Fan a Shield is an energy barrier (so a hard stop) and has nothing to do with pheromones or mental attacks.
So, no I think it should remain an energy barrier (even though it is physically provoking).


But nevertheless I like your idea of a pressure beam. So, this might be another suggestion, to have a tower with a single energy beam, that repels the hardest biter in range at the cost of energy. But for this we have to open a new suggestion.

[mrvn]

The idea would still be a shield acting on every alien. A pressure beam would have different caracteristics. Would it somehow magically just loose focus over distance? Does it loose energy as it moves through air? How do you explain that it pushes just that one alien but not the one that's standing before it right in the path of the beam?

Also note that in my suggesting the force changes with n^3. Actually it should have been n^2 because it depends on the surface area of the imagined sphere. But n^3 also makes sense if it looses energy as it passes through air. And with n^3 there would be a steep gradient. Not much room between where it starts and where aliens are completly stopped. It just wouldn't be a total off here, on there line.