Factorio Forums

TL;DR

Belts are fun. Rails are way cool. But there is nothing between... Enter the minicart!

What's a minicart ?

A minicart is a small vehicle that would serve a unique role in the distribution of goods through a factory. Currently we have belts, rails, and logistics robots to deliver goods, but we don't have a type of roadway system. Minicarts could fill this gap. Factories could be built around and connected by a system of paths, much like road ways. The Cart would function similar to a train, with auto pathfinding and stations, and be governed by lights, stop signs, etc... The player could manually drive around on the cart, set them up to deliver goods, etc... They would have a much lower speed than a train, a smaller inventory, and essentially would operate on a smaller scale, however, they are not just mini trains.

The mini cart can travel any direction, make tighter turns, and be governed by road signs.

Why ?

First, creating a system of timed lights, linked intersections, and four stops, and dealing with mincart congestion on the roadways would be novel in factorio. Factorio is all about logistics and solving problems. The belts offer a unique challenge, as do the railways, but managing traffic on a raod system would offer new opportunities to link factories in creative and novel ways, as well as present new and unique problems that don't exist in the belt or rail system.

Minicarts would be available before trains and help bridge the logistics gap between belt and rail while replacing neither. It would give the player a better way to travel within the factory.

Creating a good rail network is all about flow. Creating a good belt system is all about balancing supply + demand. Creating a good mincart system would be all about sync and timing. In a imaginary setup, you would create a mini city where specific factories produce lesser used goods. The minicart system helps distribute those goods (lube drums, batteries, sulfer, etc) between adjacent factories . The rail systme is still responsible for delivering goods en mass and over great distances. The belts are still used to feed through factories, but minicarts link the two.

If nothing else, creating roads and managing traffic would be a blast and fit perfectly within factorio.

Details?

Roads/paths would be 1x1 and allow a minicart (also 1x1) to travel along it. Minicarts are multi-directional and can make 90 turns, reverse, etc. They would be constructed using an engine, 2 steal, 10 cogs, and 3 green chips. Their inventory space would only be a few (3-5) slots, They would require refueling. A second tier of cart would be made using electric engines and require paths with a built in recharge wire (like trolleys). Signs, such as yield, stop, oneway, and lights would govern the flow of traffic. Minicarts would have lower top speeds but faster acceleration than trains. One important feature of the minicart is a bumper. No need to worry about about minicarts stacking up at a light.

Besides needing fuel, all minicarts would need lube to continue to function. They also require a new item to function at peak efficiency - an air filter - which must be replaced periodically and cleaned. Soilded filters can be cleaned at an assembler using water. A robust minicart network would require maintenance/refueling stations, dock stops for loading and unloading goods, and possibly recharge stations for electric minicarts. It could be possible to create a factory with no belts using minicarts, just as one might use logistic robots, espect that micarts would be more fun than logistic robots >.> As a side idea - Another network, called the transportation network could also be added, allowing minicarts to function automatically and return to a home dock when tasks run out. The contents of a loading and unloading stations would be part of the network, when goods conditions are met, the mini carts attempt to visit a nearby loading station, retrieve goods, and deliver them to a unloading station where goods are running out. Personally, I would like the manual minicart (where you set it up with stops like a train) but the real fun would be in solving congestion and creating a good light system to govern the carts, so I wouldn't care either way)

In the end, minicarts would add another valuable logistics layer to factorio. ald also perhaps be "easy" to implement as they could use some of the rail path-finding code.

belts make a good roadway.

Auto pathing is OP and ruins the why's of the way factorio is currently designed

Anyone tried using cars on belts before? It's a bit tricky to set up, but for very high-volume factories you can set up an enormous loop which is not limited by belt throughput.

Kinda slightly related?

LemonyFresh wrote:Anyone tried using cars on belts before? It's a bit tricky to set up, but for very high-volume factories you can set up an enormous loop which is not limited by belt throughput.

Kinda slightly related?

no, never.

Related : viewtopic.php?f=8&t=23797

Koub wrote:Related : viewtopic.php?f=8&t=23797

Related only kinda'sorta. Its not so much the net result that I am interested in, but rather the unique problem and inherrent solutions the carts would provide. I dig balancing and creating efficient logistics systems. The cart/roadway would create a new system to play with that is different than the other two.

Using a car as a buffer solves delivery issues, but doesn't create any new problems/paradigms to work out... I think. lol

JohnyDL wrote:Auto pathing is OP and ruins the why's of the way factorio is currently designed

If I understand correctly, are you then not arguing that trains ruin factorio?

I have never used logistic robots because I think that sort of auto-pilot does ruin the experience. For example, creating a factory that only produces x# of widgets on demand of a specified type is much more fun to make using circuits and belts than with flying robots. Carts wouldn't change that, just the delivery from one factory to another (trains or belts currently)

But cars would be more like trains, with stops and schedules. You still have to lay paths, and set up creative rules to maximize throughput. and think about routes/volume. Unlike robots where you just add more and they do their thing. To be honest, my very first play through I realized construction bots were cool but logistics robots used for anything except filling my inventory were cheapish...

Trains aren't autopathed, every peice of rail is user decided, sure you can choose to go point to point with the blueprint planning it but that will screw up other things, And the train's routes are set by the user, sure multiple stations can share names but the pathfinding between stations has it's limits. If belts autopathed and shifted as you add more belts so they make space for one another and you could deliver any belt of items to any spot with any number of waypoints that would be OP, And that's how it sounded in your original post that you wanted the carts to be like, they're one wide they follow the same building structure as belts and have the pathing and a similar throughput quality to trains.

And while logistics robots are a little OP they're also limited massively in terms of the amount of cargo one bot transfers and how fast, they suck at long distance while they excell in short hops. If you think a mining setup with bots magically moving items 10k is more efficient than trains you're mad and yeah I kind of agree they do take something away from the game but the logistics network on the whole can be a fascinating puzzle in it's own right don't discount it

As others have said, pathfinding would be OP. But controlling the cart via signals would be interesting. This could be achieved by allowing cars to be accelerated/reversed/turned via signals, which would be a fun addition.

The closest you can get currently is using cars on belts, as others have also said. You can set up a roadmap of different lanes and turns that would only be traversed by specific cars, and all cars would eventually return to the same depot.

JohnyDL wrote:Trains aren't autopathed, every peice of rail is user decided, sure you can choose to go point to point with the blueprint planning it but that will screw up other things, And the train's routes are set by the user, sure multiple stations can share names but the pathfinding between stations has it's limits. If belts autopathed and shifted as you add more belts so they make space for one another and you could deliver any belt of items to any spot with any number of waypoints that would be OP, And that's how it sounded in your original post that you wanted the carts to be like, they're one wide they follow the same building structure as belts and have the pathing and a similar throughput quality to trains.

And while logistics robots are a little OP they're also limited massively in terms of the amount of cargo one bot transfers and how fast, they suck at long distance while they excell in short hops. If you think a mining setup with bots magically moving items 10k is more efficient than trains you're mad and yeah I kind of agree they do take something away from the game but the logistics network on the whole can be a fascinating puzzle in it's own right don't discount it

I meant for the carts to function on paths, laid by the user as well. Depots for the carts would be named as well. In my op, I added a side thought at the end that they could function on their paths similar to logistics robots whith dynamic delivery, but that was a side thought and not what i specifically wanted out of it. What I want is a car with limited cargo space that zips around along paths, from depot to depot. At depots you can unload or load (however you make it (=like trains) . They be like minitrains, serving smaller areas, wouldn't work for long distances, and wouldn't work in tiny areas as what would be the point (a belt can do that already). But unlike a belt, which has a dedicated direction from a to b and can't share routes, the minicart system could have numerous carts trundling down the same path, guided by the lights/signs from their designated depot to depot. using the circuit network, you could set conditions for departure.

Balancing light systems to handle lots of cars would add a neat new aspect to factorio and fit perfectly within the play model. The train system is different, and requires different considerations Right now, trains need a massive amount of space and are really sort of end game, large distance options. Nothing sits in the middle between belt and rail.

Ever thought your traffic sucked in the town you live in? Now you could design a better system in factorio. Everything from speed limiters, 4 way stops, and chain intersections with lights on synchronized timers could be added.

Let me photoshop this for you: (be back in a day or two haha)

impetus maximus wrote:

LemonyFresh wrote:Anyone tried using cars on belts before? It's a bit tricky to set up, but for very high-volume factories you can set up an enormous loop which is not limited by belt throughput.

Kinda slightly related?

no, never.

Cool setup . It's a shame cars (and wagons) can only be placed manually.

Have you used cars in a situation where they present a real improvement over just belts? Science is an example but can easily be solved with sushi belts and/or belts from both sides. What about something like smelting, outposts, or circuit production?

Really cool idea. I always felt that there was something missing between rails and belts. Like cases where the distance to a mine is basically to short for trains but yet laying down belts just feels wrong as well. And don't get me wrong, a main bus is nice and all, but on the other hand also a little bit boring.
When it comes down on how to manage such traffic it should be like most things in factorio: Easy to set up in the first place. But maximizing throughput should be done with wires and combinators.

This whole idea pretty much reminds me of those logistic-robots in big warehouses that take a whole shelf and transport it somewhere else. (Just google "amazon warehouse robots")
Similar the Minicars could transport special independent storage boxes which they can unload to be accessed by inserters.

vanatteveldt wrote:
Cool setup . It's a shame cars (and wagons) can only be placed manually.

Have you used cars in a situation where they present a real improvement over just belts? Science is an example but can easily be solved with sushi belts and/or belts from both sides. What about something like smelting, outposts, or circuit production?

if you think that's cool, check out 'Lane changing car belts'.

for now i'm just using it for science to keep the number of items on belts down. i never use sushi for science.
just cars, long handed inserters, or underground 'weaving'.

i do plan to use them in the future in other areas of manufacturing.

google translate

Trains are good for transporting materials from long distances, but bad at short distances. For local transportation are good mining carts.
Mining carts fit very well into the atmosphere of factorio.

They are much more convenient than trains, for example, they take much less space. Railroad for carts can take only one cell. Research and create a mining cart can be earlier than the train. They also require less construction resources and less effort from the player. This allows you to adjust the initial supply of ore earlier and easier than with trains.

Optional: you can also create a special block for carts that will automatically unload them. For example a hopper, built-in tracks which interacts with the belts. Carts stops on this stretch of the railway and its cargo is unloaded automatically and gets on the belt.