Time acceleration

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Zavian
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Re: Time acceleration

Post by Zavian » Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:54 am

Edit: This is going to be a shorter/less rambling version of what I originally posted. I'll leave the original in a spoiler below

I said 45 science per minute, not 45 per second. That is just 5 blue assemblers for red science.

As for time acceleration, I don't think it is necessary for most of the game, and I don't think it will work well in practice for non-trivial bases. (Are you really able to get 2400 ups on a non-trivial base? I know my computer will struggle with even x2 for any sort of reasonably sized base. I also don't think it would work well in practice in multiplayer games, but lets forget that and just consider single-player).

A large part of Factorio's core gameplay is extending your base/increasing production through most of the game. Once you stop doing that then you basically stop playing the game. That might happen towards the end of a playthrough when you are just waiting for a research to finish/a rocket to be built, or when your base starts running into issues that you can't be bothered trying to fix. But unless you have hit the limit performance-wise (in which case time acceleration won't really help) this should be only for a relatively short period at the end of any playthrough. At that point you aren't really playing the game anymore, but you want to finish some goal before you quit. (At this point timewarp could be useful, except that I'm probably already performance limited. Time-warp won't help significantly if your computer performance is already approaching its limit).

For most of any playthrough there is always something useful you can and should be building/improving whilst research is running. I consider this expanding of your base/production a core part of the game design. Allowing players to timewarp will mean that players with a small base that make a few flasks/minute can skip much of the intended gameplay. (The suggestion of using time acceleration to make moving long distances less tedious is a valid use case, but I'm not sure that is worth the risk to vanilla gameplay).

You really shouldn't run into any 1 hr researches apart from the infinite researches unless you have turned research costs up, or your base is very small/resource starved (or you have a mod that adds something that is very expensive, but I'm talking about vanilla here. Even Korarex enrichment is less than 1 hr if you have 90 science/minute. And if you don't have that much science production, then you probably should consider expanding your science production by that stage of the game).

But anyway it's not up to me. It's up to the devs if they want to add this.

Original rambling post in the spoiler below
I'm not talking about building a huge base, or expanding indefinitely, just using the "downtime" whilst something is researching to build something else you know you need. eg whilst you are researching fluid handling + oil processing you can get steel setup and running and/or expand your base perimeter to include room for your refineries/clear biters way from your oil patch/build your red circuit setup ready for when you have plastic etc. I know that even in a base that is only making 45 science per minute that research finishes before I run out of things to build. Whilst the missile silo is researching, I might be setting up concrete production + solar panels + accumulators (for the satellite, even if I'm not going to use solar power on this map) + low density structures + rocket control units + rocket fuel.

I'm not arguing that the devs shouldn't add time acceleration if they think it should be part of the game. I know that when I last played the Space Expansion mod I left some of the big researches (250,000 science each) running whilst I went to bed. I was already down to 45 ups, and didn't feel like rebuilding the base to get better performance. From memory those 250000 science researches were going to take about 6 hrs. I'm just saying that for normal play without mods I don't see the need. I see the constant need for increased production through the early and middle part of the game to be an essential part of the game design. You are meant to be constantly expanding production. When you stop trying to increase production/improve your factory you essentially stop playing the game, and might as well leave it running whilst you watch videos/go to bed. I admit that in this phase of the game time acceleration would be useful, but I basically only reach this phase when I've already reached the limits of my computers performance. Time acceleration won't help if I'm already getting less than 60 ups.

I'm just saying that for normal play without mods I don't see the use. For a normal base there is always something else I could do with that time. I don't see the [quote]Even if you follow the ratios 100%, of the time as exactly as possible you still have to wait for at least 1-3 hours for research[/quote] happening on a regular basis, unless you have a very small base (less than 45 science per minute), or you are getting into infinite researches, or have tech costs turned up (or are running a mod like SpaceX, in which case you could easily run another mod that lets you control game speed without disabling achievements).

The sole exception is if you have finished building stuff for whatever reason, and don't want to build bigger for whatever reason (eg you are already running into performance problems), but still have some researches you want to complete. (The argument for being able to use it to shorten the time long journeys take is also sort of compelling, except that my computer would probably not be able to cope with even x2 time acceleration. Besides if I'm on foot I already spend too much of my time dodging trees, and if I'm in a train I can use that time to get up and get a drink/snack/etc).

I'm surprised your computer could handle x40 time acceleration with a non-trivial base. I know my computer couldn't cope with that. Are you sure you are getting 2400 updates/second with a non-trivial base ?

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Re: Time acceleration

Post by JohnyDL » Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:16 am

For multiplayer a time acceleration of 0.5 would be wonderful by the way, you completely missed that this would allow you to slow and stabilise MP games and super size bases Zavian

And because x2 or greater is not necessary for 90% of the game and that it is not possible during late game isn't really a justification for not being available at all.

A lot of players love early game but there are those of us who consider it a massive grind and even with what I call my early game set up (pictures to come) I have down time while I'm waiting for more resources to do more things because there's only so much hand crafting you can do. And only so many pointless belts you can place and prepare
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this isn't exactly a small starter base and I still would find some time acceleration useful
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featherwinglove
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Re: Time acceleration

Post by featherwinglove » Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:21 pm

Rseding91 wrote:If you're ever waiting for things in the game then you're playing the game wrong:
So, you're saying the world record speed runner is playing the game wrong :D

With respect to time acceleration, I'm usually more interested in slowing it down than speeding it up, although I wouldn't mind speeding up the early game, especially with my suicide mods.

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Game Speed

Post by Venrob » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:31 pm

There is currently a command to modify the game speed as a multiplier. It would be good to get this as a gui option that does not require enabling cheats to use. Many other games that involve large wait times tend to have a feature like this (i.e. Kerbal Space Program, Rimworld, Prison Architect). It is nice, especially early game, to have the option to double the speed. As far as balance goes, it doubles everything including biters, so balance is unaffected. Even if only "normal" and "double" are options, it still would be wonderful.

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Re: Time acceleration

Post by Koub » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:20 am

[Koub] Merged into older similar suggestion
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

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darkfrei
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/speed n

Post by darkfrei » Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:20 am

Can you please add the console command "/speed n", where "n" cannot be lower than 1? Such things must not change game balance and don't disable steam achievements.

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Re: /speed n

Post by Zavian » Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:25 am

darkfrei wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:20 am
must not change game balance and don't disable steam achievements.
But changing game speed makes speed-run challenges/achievements (and probably wave defense type scenarios) significantly easier.

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Re: Time acceleration

Post by Koub » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:16 am

[Koub] Merged into older similar suggestion
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

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darkfrei
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Re: /speed n

Post by darkfrei » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:34 am

Zavian wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:25 am
darkfrei wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:20 am
must not change game balance and don't disable steam achievements.
But changing game speed makes speed-run challenges/achievements (and probably wave defense type scenarios) significantly easier.
No, it will be easier when speed is lower than normal. Higher game speed makes game time faster. So with speed = 2 you are need to make rocket in 4 hours!

Zavian
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Re: Time acceleration

Post by Zavian » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:48 am

Ahh sorry, I missed the bit where you were only asking for time acceleration, but not the ability to reduce game.speed below 1.

Personally I don't think time acceleration is needed for vanilla, and for a modded game, can't you already add the same ability as a mod?

For large multiplayer bases, I think going below game.speed 1 is often necessary, especially if any of the players has an older/slower cpu. But since that makes the time based achievements easier, that should disable at least those achievements. So on balance I think the current
/c game.speed approach is good enough.

I'm curious why you think that the vanilla game needs time acceleration?

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Re: Time acceleration

Post by BlueTemplar » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:07 am

Vlad's Auto Time is awesome (for SP, obviously doesn't work in MP...)

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Re: Time acceleration

Post by darkfrei » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:19 am

BlueTemplar wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:07 am
Vlad's Auto Time is awesome (for SP, obviously doesn't work in MP...)
It looks like SuperHot, the time goes when you moving. Higher speed makes time going faster.

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