Enable loaders

[Lav]

After actually playing for some time with loaders, I cannot in good conscience remain serious on all loader-bashing topics on this forum.

Loaders are a nice tool which has it's own niche, adds some value to the game and does not invalidate any other existing game item.

Their costs can be fairly estimated as being somewhere between underground belt and a splitter.

Essentially, they only need graphics, removal of filtering ability (maybe implement filter loaders, but base loaders shouldn't have advanced functionality like that) and the possibility to load/unload trains. Ability to load/unload buildings can be safely retained as it's not useful anyway except in extremely contrived and/or record-setting setups (and for such scenarios there's no other tool, so again loaders won't compete with anything).

[bobingabout]

IMO, Cost power (Probably electricity, like an inserter) and filter being an optional upgrade, and you have it.
Their size alone (1x2 vs 1x1 with an inserter) coupled with the fact that they need to either be from a belt, or to a belt is often reason enough to use an inserter instead.

[Lav]

IMO, Cost power (Probably electricity, like an inserter) and filter being an optional upgrade, and you have it.
Their size alone (1x2 vs 1x1 with an inserter) coupled with the fact that they need to either be from a belt, or to a belt is often reason enough to use an inserter instead.

Filtering version definitely should need electricity to run. Basic version I think is perfectly fine as it is. Adding electricity costs to it would remove it from a pre-electricity setups, and that's the only place it can be extremely useful and actually replace inserters.

[ssilk]

I mentioned the idea, that the loader would make much more sense then now, in combination with boxing.

See this post: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=44847&p=264722&hili ... er#p264722

I actually find this still so good, that I will make an own suggestion about it.

[mophydeen]

loader should not be able to (un)load cargo wagons.

[Lav]

loader should not be able to (un)load cargo wagons.

That's your opinion and you're welcome to it. I disagree though.

Could you please give reasons why loaders should be unable to interact with wagons? More specifically, what aspects of the game will become worse if it's implemented?

[darkfrei]

Their size alone (1x2 vs 1x1 with an inserter) coupled with the fact that they need to either be from a belt, or to a belt is often reason enough to use an inserter instead.

It will be better for balance, if they have 1x5 dimensions.

[bobingabout]

Their size alone (1x2 vs 1x1 with an inserter) coupled with the fact that they need to either be from a belt, or to a belt is often reason enough to use an inserter instead.

It will be better for balance, if they have 1x5 dimensions.

It already becomes a 1x4 for most applications I'd use it in (Due to not being able to go from entity to entity, it MUST be belt to entity, or entity to belt), if it was 1x5 I'd probably just keep suffering through with the inserters.

[Shokubai]

The loader has the FEEL for me of a replacement for Assembler-to-box-to-belt or On-Belt Storage. Something I would very much use in both cases. It could simplify all manner of "balancing" mechanisms within the game around already tight manufacturing and rail output. I would like to see it as more of a hopper. It gets loaded full of things...in many ways...and can dump contents as needed much like a fluid tank.

[AndrewIRL]

I'm a late comer to the loader discussion, how did it get so political?! So many balancing ideas for a device that can transfer items in/out of boxes.

Anyway, I don't like them because they are a slightly different way of doing inserter work which just adds some clutter to the game but doesn't do much in terms of gameplay. There are already too many different things in my inventory, I don't need more items with slight variations. If I want a complex function I'll build it from simpler pieces and circuit wires => then blueprint it. If I want a complex function in a small footprint I'll put it into a Factorissimo building.

[mophydeen]

loader should not be able to (un)load cargo wagons.

That's your opinion and you're welcome to it. I disagree though.

Could you please give reasons why loaders should be unable to interact with wagons? More specifically, what aspects of the game will become worse if it's implemented?

You can use the current stack inserters. loader to (un)load wagons doesn't add anything. stacks will be faster.
Also (un)loading a wagon with a loader doesn't make sense irl. It's perfect to interact with chests. Not with other entities.

[Shokubai]

loader should not be able to (un)load cargo wagons.

That's your opinion and you're welcome to it. I disagree though.

Could you please give reasons why loaders should be unable to interact with wagons? More specifically, what aspects of the game will become worse if it's implemented?

You can use the current stack inserters. loader to (un)load wagons doesn't add anything. stacks will be faster.
Also (un)loading a wagon with a loader doesn't make sense irl. It's perfect to interact with chests. Not with other entities.

Think more like this . Train pulls in, functions like a dump truck into the unloader. Unloader has the bandwidth to pour onto belt in a 1x2 space where it would take 4 stack to do the same. At least thats how i envision it should work.

Now imagine the same item functioning as a buffer output from assemblers. I think this has could be a promising tool but it definitely needs to be more than just a better inserter.