Factorio Forums

TLDR: (title says it)

Why?

• The ability of player-driven trains to reverse is contrary to everything else in the rail network:
  • Train-stops show arrows when moused over,
  • train signals show arrows when moused over and only affect trains travelling in one direction, and
  • automatic trains can only go in one direction.
• It would make for a smoother transition to automatic trains, since
  • the player would already be building turn-around tracks, and
  • it matches the rest of how the rail system works.

Hopefully that's not too controversial!
(I haven't been able to find this particular feature request in any way, shape, or form, so maybe it is controversial. :)

I'm a bit confused but you want to remove the ability to reverse? These type of trains in RL would be able to reverse just fine and makes massive train systems with 1000's of trains almost impossible to fix if something goes wrong without having to physically pickup everything off the track.

If I'm not understanding correctly then feel free to correct me.

3 train suggestions in one day wtf gives lol.

not only should trains be able to reverse, they should be driving in reverse when another locomotive is driving the train in the opposite direction.
that is how real locomotives operate.

[edit] also when constructing tracks it's vital that my construction train be allowed to back up.

Yup, I think steam trains though had backup speed restrictions in place but I think diesel Electric trains can do decent job at backing up. Either way backing up trains in Real life has always been a must have essential thing and always will be.

Kane wrote:These type of trains in RL would be able to reverse just fine

impetus maximus wrote:not only should trains be able to reverse, they should be driving in reverse when another locomotive is driving the train in the opposite direction.
that is how real locomotives operate.

I never said anything about reality; My suggestion was specifically about how the rest of the train system acts in the game, and to smooth out the learning curve for new players. If advanced players need a train that can be reversed manually, and/or when driven automatically, then those could be advanced trains to be built and/or researched with the rest of the train tech in the game. I'm about 50/50 on whether more advanced trains would be good for the game:

• Most of the game is about building up complex things from simple parts.
• If you're debugging / building your train network, you probably already have lots of spare track in your pockets to build a T-junction or something.
• Double-ended trains already exist in the game, and obviate the need for the player to build T-junctions or loops for changing direction. (They just don't providing the fuel efficiency, speed, and shortness of the train that players want.)

If reversable trains were advanced/researched tech, then that might be OK; Still, I personally get 90% of the benefits, from normal trains, so my vote would be "no".

Thankfully this will never happen. But you could ask Rseding91 to add the api for it if you can't already mod this function in.

impetus maximus wrote:not only should trains be able to reverse, they should be driving in reverse when another locomotive is driving the train in the opposite direction.
that is how real locomotives operate.

I fully agree with this. In fact, I have made this exact suggestion six weeks ago in this thread. In that thread, I even made the suggestion that locomotives should be completely symmetrical, i.e. be able to drive full speed in both directions, as is the case with most modern locomotives. It is simply not realistic to have to build track loops everywhere, in order to allow trains to turn around.

It is true that, in the early days, locomotives were not symmetrical and couldn't drive as fast in reverse. However, this problem was not solved with track loops, but with turntables. Since Factorio is unable to simulate the automatic decoupling of the locomotive from the train and automatically reattach it to the other end (EDIT: As Kane has pointed out, this statement is not correct), it would be better if Factorio would simply use modern locomotives, which are symmetrical and therefore have no need for a turntable. It should be standard for a train to have a locomotive on both ends and for both locomotives to provide power to the train.

AileTheAlien wrote:automatic trains can only go in one direction.

This statement is not correct. If you place a locomotive on both ends of a train facing different directions, then the train can drive in both directions, even in automatic mode. The only problem with doing this in automatic mode is that only one locomtive will provide power to the train. In my thread which I referenced above, I have made the suggestion that both locomotives should contribute to the total power of the train.

This might interest people on the subject of coupling
viewtopic.php?f=93&t=42162

Kane wrote:This might interest people on the subject of coupling
viewtopic.php?f=93&t=42162

Thank you very much for pointing out this mod. It is very interesting.

Tekky wrote:It is true that, in the early days [...] Since Factorio is unable to simulate [...] it would be better if Factorio would simply use modern locomotives

This is a game with alien tentacles, robot-arms that can run on coal without any computers, and portable fusion energy. Making the game copy real-life doesn't seem to be the primary motivator, for things to be put into the game. Bi-directional trains would be cool, and I could see them being useful as later-game tech, but my I stand by my argument, that the game would have an easier learning curve, if the basic trains were single-direction. :)

Tekky wrote:

AileTheAlien wrote:automatic trains can only go in one direction.

This statement is not correct. If you place a locomotive on both ends of a train

AileTheAlien wrote:Double-ended trains already exist in the game, and obviate the need for the player to build T-junctions or loops for changing direction.

I'm not sure how to better phrase this, but this statement was where I was trying to indicate, that I am fully aware you can put trains forwards, backwards, at the front, at the back, or anywhere along a train, to make whatever configuration of train you want in the game. Still, double-ended trains do most of what reversable-locomotives would do, but with less game mechanics required. :)

Switching work have small role in Factorio but at least I want to be able to do it when I rearrange trains. If you do not want to reverse then just do not reverse. It is not necessary to prevent others to reverse.

Kane wrote:Thankfully this will never happen. But you could ask Rseding91 to add the api for it if you can't already mod this function in.

You already can specify reversing power as a ratio of forward power 0-1. Set it to 0, can't reverse.

But this solution is backwards... Real trains can reverse, heck, even old steam engines can reverse, the main reason why you don't see those huge express steam engines traveling in reverse is purely because the tender doesn't work well when running backwards, but they still can as a means of moving them around. More modern electric and diesel engines can effectively run backwards as easily as they run forwards, in fact many engines have cabs at both sides, so backwards is just as forwards as forwards is.

So... I disagree with this suggestion, if anything, reverse power should count towards engine power when the engine consists of both forward facing and rear facing engines.

I point again to this discussion: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=35806 RoRo vs Terminus (was Loop vs 2-headed train network)

And in my opinion this behavior is a bit strange, yes, but it's fair and interesting.

Trains don't reverse in auto mode as it is and disabling it would just complicate stuff even worse.
The manual mode is for fixing stuff. And in Factorio you are able to fix anything and it should feel comfortable doing so.