Roboports should output missing materials to circuit network

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Lemlin
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Re: Roboport Circut Output: +Available -Demand

Post by Lemlin »

mrzorn wrote:Edit:

Wups
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=39474&p=251161&hili ... rt#p251161

----
Hi there!

I have this brainchild I'm thinking about since a few weeks. I want to setup a train for my outposts to supply my roboports there, outside of the reach of the "Mainbase"-Network, with the Items that are requested locally.

As far as I can see there is no way to read from a Roboport what is currently "missing" within the network.

So if it would be possible to Output from a Roboport with wire not only the Items that are available but also the Items that are currently requested (via chests or blueprints) with a negative value.

I would think the result to be like this:

Yell. Belt: + (In store 100) - (Need 00) = Output + 100 Yellow Belt
Red Belt: + (In store 050) - (Need 20) = Output + 30 Red Belt
Blue Belt: + (In store 000) - (Need 10) = Output - 10 Blue Belt
I have tried this solution before:

*Build a Constant combinator and set the stuff (and amount) you want/need in the outpost. I think the amount should be negative for my setup to work.
*Connect the output to the input of a decider combinator. Setup should be Input:"each < 0" Output: "Each".
*A roboport should output the logistic storage values to the input of the decider combinator.
*At the station, build provider chests and filter inserters set to "set filter mode". Connect the filter inserters to the output of the decider combinator.

If I managed to explain this right the inserters would grab the stuff you need from the supply train until it reaches your desired value.
The design can probably be improved. More than one inserter/wagon can result in too many items transferred since they grab one stack each.

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ssilk
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Re: Roboports should output missing materials to circuit network

Post by ssilk »

That works for up to 5 items at a time (slots of a filter inserter). But not more.
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Lemlin
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Re: Roboports should output missing materials to circuit network

Post by Lemlin »

Yeah, but if you have enough items in your train it would cycle through them. It´s 5 at a same time, but when an item is supplied it would be removed from the filter.

I found my setup in the wiki, it might be better explained there:
https://wiki.factorio.com/Circuit-network_Cookbook

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Re: Roboport Circut Output: +Available -Demand

Post by mrzorn »

Slimey wrote:
I have tried this solution before:

*Build a Constant combinator and set the stuff (and amount) you want/need in the outpost. I think the amount should be negative for my setup to work.
*Connect the output to the input of a decider combinator. Setup should be Input:"each < 0" Output: "Each".
*A roboport should output the logistic storage values to the input of the decider combinator.
*At the station, build provider chests and filter inserters set to "set filter mode". Connect the filter inserters to the output of the decider combinator.

If I managed to explain this right the inserters would grab the stuff you need from the supply train until it reaches your desired value.
The design can probably be improved. More than one inserter/wagon can result in too many items transferred since they grab one stack each.
Thanks for the suggestion. I see how this could work but an option to take the 'requests' from the Roboport directly would benifit this idea of an universal, modular and semi-self building blueprint collection for outposts :D
This or a train with an "semi-automatic" cruise control, combined with modular Wagons/Roboport Wagons which takes advantages of the trains cargospace would fullfill my wet dreams (factorio wise).

((I still think if a spaceman can wear a PowerArmorMk2 with all the fancy modules like roboports and fusion reactors, it should be definetly possible to also able to, at least duct-tape that stuff on a train!))
Factorio showed me my german passion for perfectly working systems.

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Re: Roboport Circut Output: +Available -Demand

Post by mattj256 »

mrzorn wrote:I see how this could work but an option to take the 'requests' from the Roboport directly would benifit this idea of an universal, modular and semi-self building blueprint collection for outposts :D
There's a difference between an unsatisfied construction/logistic request (where something can't be built because the materials are missing), versus you want to stock an outpost with an arbitrary amount of certain supplies. For the first type of problem I could imagine a generic solution. For the second type of problem you'll need to set up a circuit network and hook up a constant combinator with your desired supply levels.

Here's a FFF describing how to resupply outposts:
https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-140

It's a modified version of what Slimey said (but I think the FFF solution is easier to understand).
instructions
Example
As Slimey said, your filter inserter will only be able to choose from five items at a time. After each one is satisfied it will move on to a different item.
Known issues:
1. If you're requesting an item that the train doesn't have, the filter inserter isn't smart enough to skip that item and move on to a different item. (This is only a problem if there are at least five requested items that aren't present on the train.)
2. Due to the stack size bonus, you may not get EXACTLY as many items as you want. You'll get a few extra instead.
3. You still have to create a supply train, load supplies, and configure it to visit each outpost.

Regarding the third issue, here's a mod that may be helpful:
Logistic Train Network
https://mods.factorio.com/mods/Optera/L ... ainNetwork

Also check out FFF 178, which has a link to a self-replicating factory!
https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-178

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Re: Roboport Circut Output: +Available -Demand

Post by whitecold »

mattj256 wrote: There's a difference between an unsatisfied construction/logistic request (where something can't be built because the materials are missing), versus you want to stock an outpost with an arbitrary amount of certain supplies. For the first type of problem I could imagine a generic solution. For the second type of problem you'll need to set up a circuit network and hook up a constant combinator with your desired supply levels.
I'd consider the two very much the same problem, the only thing that changes is in one place your 'robo port missing items' is your input signal, while in the second case it is a constant combinator. I'm using the second variant to 'fake' my supply shipments, with the unsatisfactory result of having spare inserters, modules and miners lying around at every outpost.
With the ability to place blueprints over the map view, it would be awesome to be able to set up an automatic delivery system that you can for example expand your outlying circuit factories, smelters or your reactor, and your train picks up the appropriate items from the main base and delivers them.

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Read materials required for construction from roboport

Post by Alfred0110 »

I propose adding a new mode of operation to roboports that would send all materials required for construction (and that a bot is not yet assigned to) to the circuit network. This would allow you to, for example, build a train system that automatically delivers the construction materials on demand after placing blueprints from afar.

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Re: Read materials required for construction from roboport

Post by leoch »

Self-supplying, self-constructing remote autoposts with proper logistics; I like it!

BTW you can do this already if you don't mind using a generic station unloading a few of every type of item that might be required. And yes, you can unload 20+ types of item from a single train wagon in limited quantities, and load that train in a single station, but it does require some complex circuitry.

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Circuit network read missing materials for construction

Post by flaghacker_ »

When a roboport is connected to the circuit network it should have an option to output the materials that are currently missing for construction on the circuit network.

A simple example:
Image
The circuit network value should in this case be "8 laser turrents".

This would allow for some more control over how items move between logistic networks, for example it would become possible to set up a train that brings missing construction materials to damaged (destroyed) walls or to construction sites.

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Re: Roboports should output missing materials to circuit network

Post by Shaftoe »

This! I want this (the OP request, not the musings afterwords) - Roboports should report negative values for the things they need for the constructors but don't have, OR, barring that, it should be a select-able toggle akin to 'read logistic network contents' or 'read robot statistics'.

I have a beautiful Logistic Train Network setup that has variable input-output stations distributed across the map, but i can't ask for trains to get loaded up with building supplies in an automated way because i can't input those requests into the network via any means i can figure out.

Thx,

Shaftoe

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Re: Circuit network read missing materials for construction

Post by flaghacker_ »

I'm looking around a bit to see if this would even be possible to do with a mod, but there are a couple of issues:
  • It looks like the building queue is never exposed to the Lua api anywhere, so the mod would have to keep track of the placed ghosts itself, potentially causing some performance issues. I think it should be possible to build these maps incrementally, using on_robot_built_entity, on_pre_ghost_deconstructed, on_player_setup_blueprint, ..., but that brings us to
  • When two robot networks merge, the corresponding ghost maps should be merged as well, that's not an issue. When two networks split however, the incremental approach breaks down, the mod would have to rescan all affected ghost entities.
Maybe these issues aren't as bad as I think they are, I'll just have to try them out. I'd appreciate any pointers/suggestions anyone could give me!

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Re: Circuit network read missing materials for construction

Post by BHakluyt »

Yes! Definitely +1!

Wanted to suggest this a year ago when I really needed that in my game and never got round to asking about it. Been working my way around this but this will be a really neat addition. Also radars can do with outputting number of biters and spawners nearby then you can put lasers on a seperate electric grid and automate them to only fire when biters are close...detected.

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Re: Circuit network read missing materials for construction

Post by gheift »

There is an old mod, but I haven't looked into it: https://mods.factorio.com/mod/ConstructionCombinator

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steinio
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Re: Circuit network read missing materials for construction

Post by steinio »

This is also suggested for logistic network demands.

Problem is, that negative numbers are not published.

I hope so that this gets implemented soon.
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Re: Circuit network read missing materials for construction

Post by flaghacker_ »

gheift wrote:There is an old mod, but I haven't looked into it: https://mods.factorio.com/mod/ConstructionCombinator
Thanks! I'll take a look and see what ideas I can borrow! The code starts with

Code: Select all

-- Known limitations:
--  * Modules disappear from signal when the ghost is built
--	* Deconstructing a ghost before it's built with the deconstruction planner 
--		does not remove it from the signal until another update is triggered
--		as there does not seem to be an event fired when this happens
Promising indeed :).

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Circuit Network and roboports

Post by Tirly »

I think it would be nice, roboports can send signals like:
--- missing Construction robot in network
--- missing items to build something by construction robot

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Re: Roboports should output missing materials to circuit network

Post by Koub »

[Koub] Merged into older topic with same suggestion
For the missing items at least.
The missing construction robot makes less sense : at any one point, you're likely to have missing bots when you build big. You rarely have the huge number of bots needed to build in one go a huge blueprint.
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Re: Roboports should output missing materials to circuit network

Post by whitecold »

If anyone is interested in this behavior, I made a mod that adds a combinator that performs exactly this. (I am afraid I have no clue how to hack into the roboport)

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/missing-circuit

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Re: Roboports should output missing materials to circuit network

Post by dandrestor »

whitecold wrote:If anyone is interested in this behavior, I made a mod that adds a combinator that performs exactly this. (I am afraid I have no clue how to hack into the roboport)

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/missing-circuit
Beautiful! Exactly what I was looking for.

+1 for including this behaviour in the vanilla roboport.

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Re: Roboports should output missing materials to circuit network

Post by <NO_NAME> »

Shaftoe wrote:This! I want this (the OP request, not the musings afterwords) - Roboports should report negative values for the things they need for the constructors but don't have, OR, barring that, it should be a select-able toggle akin to 'read logistic network contents' or 'read robot statistics'.

I have a beautiful Logistic Train Network setup that has variable input-output stations distributed across the map, but i can't ask for trains to get loaded up with building supplies in an automated way because i can't input those requests into the network via any means i can figure out.
Exactly that.
I'm also trying to do that but at this moment the only option is to predefine list of items that have to be delivered to each outpost - very far from optimal.
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