Poll: Offshore Pump Should Need Energy

Post your ideas and suggestions how to improve the game.

Should the offshore pump need power and/or fuel to run?

Yes. Cause it would add more fun than it complicates things.
11
6%
No. It adds complexity without adding game-value; and eventually (not proven) it's game-killing for beginners.
55
28%
Yes. Cause the magic (missing emergence/technology jump) disturbs me.
12
6%
No. The game is emergent enough (any future technology looks like magic).
6
3%
Maybe, if the pump needs coal for kickstarting and electricity to run full powered.
24
12%
Maybe another solution, for example a burner-/hand-pump for the startup and an electric offshore pump...
72
37%
I don't know, just want to see the results.
15
8%
 
Total votes: 195

Factorie
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Re: Poll: Offshore Pump Should Need Energy

Post by Factorie » Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:58 am

Shouldn't add that much complexity. Once you get electricity it'll be negligible.

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bobingabout
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Re: Poll: Offshore Pump Should Need Energy

Post by bobingabout » Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:27 am

I think one of the biggest issues I have with this (secondary to the whole "you need water to make power, but you need power to make water" "chicken and the egg" scenario) is the situation you find yourself in after a power shortage.

right now, when you get low power, your miners slow down their mining speed, which results in a fuel shortage, so the power generation reduces, so your drills mine even slower, and eventually you completely run out of power. and from this point, getting things kick-started again becomes quite difficult, you have to cut power to your base, yet keep your miners running, which could be difficult depending on wiring, and keep it like that until you resolve the low power issue.

If water pumps are powered by electricity, you could end up in the same situation.

However, if the water pump was set to a primary energy source (which I think is currently only used for a few things like laser turrets right now) then the situation would be improved.
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mexmer
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Re: Poll: Offshore Pump Should Need Energy

Post by mexmer » Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:02 am

bobingabout wrote:I think one of the biggest issues I have with this (secondary to the whole "you need water to make power, but you need power to make water" "chicken and the egg" scenario) is the situation you find yourself in after a power shortage.

right now, when you get low power, your miners slow down their mining speed, which results in a fuel shortage, so the power generation reduces, so your drills mine even slower, and eventually you completely run out of power. and from this point, getting things kick-started again becomes quite difficult, you have to cut power to your base, yet keep your miners running, which could be difficult depending on wiring, and keep it like that until you resolve the low power issue.

If water pumps are powered by electricity, you could end up in the same situation.

However, if the water pump was set to a primary energy source (which I think is currently only used for a few things like laser turrets right now) then the situation would be improved.
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that's why also like idea, that was posted here few times already (although i myself was for burner offshore pump) that instead offshore pump, will be only water inlet, and there will be burner pump, that actually does the work (eg. fill pipes from inlet). you can easily have paralel burner pump with electric, and you will just stuff it with coal to restart circle.

i myself usually have box with coal near boilers as backup, in case i run out of fuel.

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Re: Poll: Offshore Pump Should Need Energy

Post by mp0011 » Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:13 am

Maybe reduce regular offshore pump throughput, and add new pump Mk2, that requires electricity?
Anyway, it's probably just a matter of adding accumulator and solar panel, separated from the grid, and "pump electricity problem" is fixed forever...

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Re: Poll: Offshore Pump Should Need Energy

Post by Deadly-Bagel » Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:19 am

mp0011 wrote:Maybe reduce regular offshore pump throughput, and add new pump Mk2, that requires electricity?
...Or you could make it possible for the existing electric Pump to extract from water bodies? The crafting window is cluttered with enough junk as it is.
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Re: Poll: Offshore Pump Should Need Energy

Post by mrvn » Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:47 pm

Koub wrote:Has your character ever eaten or drank since you started playing ?
Yes I have. "Eating" fish heals you.

And since there is raw fish why can't I cook it in a furnace?

Also did you notice your space suite? It recycles the air you breath, your sweat and other waste into a nurishing, if not tastey, food paste. :)

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Re: Poll: Offshore Pump Should Need Energy

Post by Hannu » Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:12 am

mrvn wrote:And since there is raw fish why can't I cook it in a furnace?
I think if you cook fishes in an iron smelting furnace they may become little bit too well done.

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Re: Poll: Offshore Pump Should Need Energy

Post by mexmer » Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:57 am

Hannu wrote:
mrvn wrote:And since there is raw fish why can't I cook it in a furnace?
I think if you cook fishes in an iron smelting furnace they may become little bit too well done.
since smelting furnace can "autotune" for different temperatures (copper ore, iron ore, iron->steel), this should be no issue :D or just use wood instead of coal, gives less heat.

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Re: Poll: Offshore Pump Should Need Energy

Post by Hannu » Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:01 pm

mexmer wrote:since smelting furnace can "autotune" for different temperatures (copper ore, iron ore, iron->steel), this should be no issue :D or just use wood instead of coal, gives less heat.
I tried once to try insects with normal kitchen owen. Its temperature control was not intended to use below 50 C and it overheated. Fortunately I tried with low value species. I would not expect that smelting furnace intended to operate at 1200-1600 C would work much better at 200 C. But you can always try. It should not take many code lines to make a mod.

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Re: Poll: Offshore Pump Should Need Energy

Post by burninghey » Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:30 am

I would prefer 2 working modes for the offshore pump.

1) no electricity. 120 units of water per second. Just enough to jumpstart early power.
2) electricity. standard 1200 units of water per second. Power consumption 900 kW.

or

1) no electricity. 100 units of water per second. Just enough to jumpstart early power.
2) adjusts electricity consumption based of pump speed. 100 additional water per seconds adds 100 kW. Up to maximum pipe throughput.

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Re: Poll: Offshore Pump Should Need Energy

Post by darkfrei » Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:06 am

burninghey wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:30 am
1) no electricity. 120 units of water per second. Just enough to jumpstart early power.
2) electricity. standard 1200 units of water per second. Power consumption 900 kW.
Tier 1: burner offshore pump with 60 fluids per second
Tier 2: electric offshore pump with actual parameters (1200 fluids/s?)

10 fluids for 1 kJ looks good for me. So first tier needs 6 kW burner and 120 kW for second tier. With direct connection and cheatty 12000 fluids/s it takes also 1.2 MW.

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Re: Poll: Offshore Pump Should Need Energy

Post by 5thHorseman » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:49 am

Make it so you have to repeatedly click the pump to give it power. Like oh so many mobile games.

No, wait. Don't do that it's terrible.
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Re: Poll: Offshore Pump Should Need Energy

Post by mrvn » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:44 pm

burninghey wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:30 am
I would prefer 2 working modes for the offshore pump.

1) no electricity. 120 units of water per second. Just enough to jumpstart early power.
2) electricity. standard 1200 units of water per second. Power consumption 900 kW.

or

1) no electricity. 100 units of water per second. Just enough to jumpstart early power.
2) adjusts electricity consumption based of pump speed. 100 additional water per seconds adds 100 kW. Up to maximum pipe throughput.
When you place down a burner inserter it has enough initial power to grab some fuel. Same could be used for pumps. When placed they pump some amount of water and then need fuel/electricity to continue. That way when you build your power plant and it gets some water, the boiler turns that into steam, the steam engine makes some electricity and the pump takes off.

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Re: Poll: Offshore Pump Should Need Energy

Post by Darinth » Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:51 pm

I'd have to honestly say that I'd rather that the current system simply be left intact as is. Yes, it's unrealistic, but I don't see a benefit to the change. The only change that I've seen suggested that I don't think would be particularly annoying would be to make the current pump able to both act as a burner pump if it's out or low on power and run on electricity otherwise. I really don't want to have to design a redundant pumping system to deal with potential brown-outs. Even the solution of utilizing a single pump that can switch modes means running additional belts over to jagged coastlines (or actually landfilling water bodies to provide straight coast lines) to make sure there's a consistent fuel supply for emergency fuel during brown-outs, which I'm honestly not a fan of. I could deal with it, but the pump is one of the earliest entities the plays will have to build to get power up and running, I'd say leave it as is.

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Re: Poll: Offshore Pump Should Need Energy

Post by Sad_Brother » Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:49 pm

mrvn wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:44 pm
When you place down a burner inserter it has enough initial power to grab some fuel. Same could be used for pumps. When placed they pump some amount of water and then need fuel/electricity to continue. That way when you build your power plant and it gets some water, the boiler turns that into steam, the steam engine makes some electricity and the pump takes off.
That is an option.
But I would prefer a burner electrical source to feed your first pump or to power your whole base before you design and build solar panels and deep water wells.

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Re: Poll: Offshore Pump Should Need Energy

Post by <NO_NAME> » Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:56 am

Sad_Brother wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:49 pm
mrvn wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:44 pm
When you place down a burner inserter it has enough initial power to grab some fuel. Same could be used for pumps. When placed they pump some amount of water and then need fuel/electricity to continue. That way when you build your power plant and it gets some water, the boiler turns that into steam, the steam engine makes some electricity and the pump takes off.
That is an option.
But I would prefer a burner electrical source to feed your first pump or to power your whole base before you design and build solar panels and deep water wells.
It could be something based on thermoelectric effect to stick close to real physics.
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