Train Exit Side

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uber5001
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When exiting a train, put players on the signal side (right side)

Post by uber5001 »

TL;DR
When players exit trains, place them on the the signal side (the right side) instead of the left, with respect to the orientation of the vehicle.


Related
A change from the 0.13 changelog stated:
Exiting vehicles now puts you to the left of the vehicle with respect to the orientation of the vehicle.
A previous suggestion, Train Exit Side. This ended in RHD/LHD arguments, which don't apply for adjacent rail setups (explained below), since the only option for adjacent rails is RHD, and 2 adjacent LHD railways suffer from the same problem, both of which are solved by this suggestion.


What?
The behavior listed above from 0.13 should be changed to put the player on the same side as where rail signals are placed (the right), not the left, with respect to the orientation of the vehicle.

Additionally, it looks like this is only properly applied to locomotives (bug?). When placed by themselves on a vertical rail, wagons seems to always unload on the left side regardless of the orientation of the vehicle.

Why?
To avoid player deaths on adjacent rails. When rails are adjacent to each other, right hand drive is forced, and the player always unloads on the opposite rail instead of safely on the ground:
UsafeTrainExitingOnCrushedRails.gif
UsafeTrainExitingOnCrushedRails.gif (2.34 MiB) Viewed 620 times


Additionally, intersections that use adjacent rails like this are dangerous when unloading on the left side:
CrushedIntersectionOldSide.png
CrushedIntersectionOldSide.png (1.15 MiB) Viewed 620 times
...and much safer (still dangerous, of course) on the right side:
CrushedIntersectionSignalSide.png
CrushedIntersectionSignalSide.png (1.15 MiB) Viewed 620 times


Straightaways with adjacent rails are always dangerous when unloading on the left side:
CrushedStraightawayOldSide.png
CrushedStraightawayOldSide.png (340.66 KiB) Viewed 620 times
...and always safe when unloading on the right side:
CrushedStraightawaySignalSide.png
CrushedStraightawaySignalSide.png (338.87 KiB) Viewed 620 times


The signal side is safe because it usually doesn't have rails there, since the signals prevent rails from being placed on that side. So players should unload on the signal side of the track.



I haven't been able to come up with a scenario where unloading on the left side is ever safer then unloading on the right side. Usually it doesn't matter, but when compact rails are involved, unloading on the right side is often safer.

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Re: Train Exit Side

Post by Koub »

[Koub] Merged both topics, they have very similar suggestions.
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Re: Train Exit Side

Post by zOldBulldog »

I would rather see a setting that lets us chose our exit side.

But I do not find the current design bad, it just meant that I gave up RHD. Took me a while to get used to it, but I am now quite comfortable with LHD and how trains work.

If anything, I would hate to be forced into a different behavior now that all my blueprints have been built.

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Re: Train Exit Side

Post by mrvn »

How about checking if there is a tile with no rails in radius x distance and use that?

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Re: Train Exit Side

Post by Darinth »

Actually... the simple idea of checking 'Will exiting here put the character on top of a rail?" and if yes, putting them on the other side, seems to make a lot of sense...

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Re: Train Exit Side

Post by Malin »

Darinth wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:38 pm
Actually... the simple idea of checking 'Will exiting here put the character on top of a rail?" and if yes, putting them on the other side, seems to make a lot of sense...
More simpler idea would be to have check box in options, or at least property for modding... But no one will hear our prayers...

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Re: Train Exit Side

Post by Koub »

My personal preference would be, at least on horizontal tracks, to always exit a vehicle on the side I can see the character (so on the lower side of the vehicle screenwise).
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Re: Train Exit Side

Post by Darinth »

Malin wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:44 pm
Darinth wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:38 pm
Actually... the simple idea of checking 'Will exiting here put the character on top of a rail?" and if yes, putting them on the other side, seems to make a lot of sense...
More simpler idea would be to have check box in options, or at least property for modding... But no one will hear our prayers...
If the only thing that the game does is that one check then there's no need for modifying UI or adding options anywhere. It's completely automatic with players never needing to look around for options. Simpler both for developers to implement and players to use. Unfortunately, it lacks the customization options that a lot of players like. So I can easily see a reason to prefer an option to control what side of the train you get on/off of.

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Re: Train Exit Side

Post by zOldBulldog »

Koub wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:52 pm
My personal preference would be, at least on horizontal tracks, to always exit a vehicle on the side I can see the character (so on the lower side of the vehicle screenwise).
I would go for a settings options as follows:

1) Preference selector (used as indicated below):
- Left
- Right

2) Selector to exit:
- Always exit by side preference. (for those who like the current system)
- Dynamic as follows:
--- If two tracks touch side-by-side, exit on the side that has no rail.
--- If they don't touch side-by-side, exit on the visible side. But if both sides are visible, exit by Preference (1).

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Train station side

Post by Episode922 »

Hi everybody.
Would it be possible when arriving to a station to choose the side where whe come out ?
I m fed up to have to go around :)

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Re: Train station side

Post by Tekky »

This has already been suggested and discussed in the following thread:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=31268 Train Exit Side

EDIT: Meanwhile, the threads have been merged. Therefore, my above link now points to the current thread.
Last edited by Tekky on Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Train station side

Post by Episode922 »

tx !

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Re: Train Exit Side

Post by Koub »

[Koub] Topics merged.
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

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Re: Train Exit Side

Post by bobingabout »

Personally, being from a LHD country, Exiting on the left seems wonderful.

Also consider that those who do use LHD often have a gap between the rails for signals to go there. personally I leave a 2 rail gap, which allows cross over tracks to be a thing, but also allows you to put things like roboports and radars between the tracks, not just signals.

either way, it's all just preference, and short of allowing each player to choose their side, there'll always be someone unhappy.

Thinking about it though, to solve the issue, you basically just need to have a runtime per player setting to let each player choose. this is saved in the savegame, and in theory, since you already have settings like this that don't break determinism, you could have this system on a base game option too.
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Re: Train Exit Side

Post by mrvn »

bobingabout wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:09 am
Personally, being from a LHD country, Exiting on the left seems wonderful.

Also consider that those who do use LHD often have a gap between the rails for signals to go there. personally I leave a 2 rail gap, which allows cross over tracks to be a thing, but also allows you to put things like roboports and radars between the tracks, not just signals.

either way, it's all just preference, and short of allowing each player to choose their side, there'll always be someone unhappy.

Thinking about it though, to solve the issue, you basically just need to have a runtime per player setting to let each player choose. this is saved in the savegame, and in theory, since you already have settings like this that don't break determinism, you could have this system on a base game option too.
Or simply remember the side you entered.

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Re: Train Exit Side

Post by zOldBulldog »

mrvn wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:04 am
bobingabout wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:09 am
Personally, being from a LHD country, Exiting on the left seems wonderful.

Also consider that those who do use LHD often have a gap between the rails for signals to go there. personally I leave a 2 rail gap, which allows cross over tracks to be a thing, but also allows you to put things like roboports and radars between the tracks, not just signals.

either way, it's all just preference, and short of allowing each player to choose their side, there'll always be someone unhappy.

Thinking about it though, to solve the issue, you basically just need to have a runtime per player setting to let each player choose. this is saved in the savegame, and in theory, since you already have settings like this that don't break determinism, you could have this system on a base game option too.
Or simply remember the side you entered.
Or both, through the power of settings options:

1) LHD
2) RHD
3) The side you entered
4) Any other list of choices.

Personally I come from and lived in RHD countries. So I started Factorio designing RHD rail setups. But I got frustrated at how different things happen with RHD and switched to LHD, found various bebefits... and I never want to go back!!!

But the truth is that each is best under different situations and it is not a bad idea to use both:

RHD:
- Compact unidirectional unpowered rail, laying both tracks touching side to side. Do not send passengers on these! Signals will go on the outside.
- Long haul unpowered rail, lay as above,.

LHD:
- Ideal for powered rail, with large power poles and signals on the inside. You can also place the occasional radars, turrets and even roboports on the inside.
- Makes it easier to exit on the side of the buildings.

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Re: Train Exit Side

Post by Tekky »

I think it would be best if the player could leave the train on a specific side by holding the left or right button while hitting the ENTER key.

That way, the discussion in this thread will only be about the default exit side (i.e. the exit side if no key is pressed).

However, one problem I see is that, with bidirectional trains, it can be unclear which side is left and which side is right.

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bobingabout
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Re: Train Exit Side

Post by bobingabout »

Tekky wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:09 am
I think it would be best if the player could leave the train on a specific side by holding the left or right button while hitting the ENTER key.
that's good too, though perhaps a tad confusing when you realise that pressing right to exit a south facing train would have you exit on the left.
Also, you'd immediately start running.
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Re: Train Exit Side

Post by Darinth »

Another possibility would be to exit 'towards the mouse cursor', though I'd be afraid that'd be confusing.

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Re: Train Exit Side

Post by Tekky »

bobingabout wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:32 pm
Tekky wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:09 am
I think it would be best if the player could leave the train on a specific side by holding the left or right button while hitting the ENTER key.
that's good too, though perhaps a tad confusing when you realise that pressing right to exit a south facing train would have you exit on the left.
One other solution would be that the player presses in the direction in which he wants to exit the train independently of the orientation of the train.

For example, pressing left will always cause the player to exit to the west of the train, and pressing right will always cause the player to exit to the east. Pressing up will cause the player to always exit to the north, pressing down will cause the player to exit to the south.

If the train is oriented NE/SW (diagonally), then pressing either the right or the down button will cause the player to leave the train to the south-east, whereas left or up will cause the player to leave the train to the north-west.

That would also solve the problem of bidirectional trains, since it would no longer matter where the front of the train is. Only the orientation of the train would matter.
bobingabout wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:32 pm
Also, you'd immediately start running.
Well, after leaving the train, you could force the player to let go of the button and press it again. Until then, the button would have no further effect.

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