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Vehicle Controls (reversing)

Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 1:23 pm
by fdinst
Quick suggestion this.

In most games where you control a car or vehicle from a top down POV (Micro Machines, Grand Theft Auto, etc), when you reverse, the left and right keys invert, so that holding REVERSE + LEFT means your car slowly turns to the right, and vice versa.

This is something I appear to have internalised rather too deeply to overcome. I've been playing Factorio for a couple of months now, and yet I still intuitively try to reverse using this scheme, and end up reversing the wrong direction, only to have to second-guess or override my control-intuitions to get it right.

I am sure I am not the only person with this preference for how the vehicles should handle. Is it possible to include an option in the Controls menu to invert the left and right keys while reversing a vehicle?

Alternatively, is this something that it would be easy to mod? (Can't seem to find a mod that does this, having looked.)

Re: Vehicle Controls (reversing)

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:18 pm
by ssilk
And how do you want then to drive a circle? I mean: I don't know those games in detail and how they solve this problem. Sorry. :cry: 8-) Seriously: Can someone please describe, how those games solve this problem?

Cause in Factorio you need this to circle around a biter nest. You cannot success in this technique, if you control switches "just in that moment". :) And another (but not very helpful) reason is, because vehicles are difficult to control, you feel much better, ones you destroyed a biter nest like so. :)

Re: Vehicle Controls (reversing)

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:52 pm
by daniel34
ssilk wrote:And how do you want then to drive a circle? I mean: I don't know those games in detail and how they solve this problem. Sorry. :cry: 8-) Seriously: Can someone please describe, how those games solve this problem?
I think you misunderstood the suggestion. What OP meant was an option to switch the left and right (default A and D) keys when in a vehicle and driving backwards.
Example: With the current implementation when the car is facing north and you press S and D (backwards and right) to turn it 90° it will face west. If Factorio included an option as OP described the car would make the turn the other way and face east.
Driving in circles is the same, just the direction the car is driving when driving backwards is reversed.

Interestingly the tank already has reversed input when driving backwards, it will drive in the opposite direction of the car because of the tank steering it uses.
fdinst wrote:Alternatively, is this something that it would be easy to mod? (Can't seem to find a mod that does this, having looked.)
I've been curious about the modability of cars for some time, so I gave it a shot.
reverse-car_0.0.1.zip
(2.58 KiB) Downloaded 28 times
This mod automatically switches the driving direction (left/right) while driving the car backwards. It's more of a proof-of-concept and it only works for the vanilla car, although a generic solution for all cars would also be possible.

Re: Vehicle Controls (reversing)

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 5:59 pm
by fdinst
Amazing. Thank you. I can't wait to try it out.
Interestingly the tank already has reversed input when driving backwards, it will drive in the opposite direction of the car because of the tank steering it uses.
Interesting - didn't realise that, but it explains why I found the tank easier to control.

Edit: Absolutely perfect. Exactly what I meant. I think this should be added to the main game as a toggleable option in the controls menu.

Re: Vehicle Controls (reversing)

Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:03 pm
by Steinhauer
I too just can't seem to get used to the current controls, and I've lost far too many cars to this already.
Please continue updating this mod, it's a must have!

EDIT: Oh, it seems this thread is quite old. Sorry for the necropost :(

Re: Vehicle Controls (reversing)

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:02 am
by daniel34
I only made that mod as a proof-of-concept, I don't intend to maintain it further as I actually never used it outside of testing. Anybody is free to use the above code in his/her own mod.

It should still work if you just replace the two instances of "0.13" in the info.json file with "0.14".

Re: Vehicle Controls (reversing)

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:02 pm
by Deadly-Bagel
daniel34 wrote:Interestingly the tank already has reversed input when driving backwards, it will drive in the opposite direction of the car because of the tank steering it uses.
It's to do with how the two vehicles behave. Tanks use treads and can turn on the spot by locking (or reversing) one tread and driving the other, while cars use four wheels. I guess you can kind of think of it like the car "turns" while the tank "rotates".

Mostly they adhere to real life though at least in the case of an excavator you have pedals to lock the wheels, so pressing the left pedal would always make you move off to your left whether you are going forwards or backwards, unlike the tank where if you press the left arrow key you actually move to the right if going backwards.

Re: Vehicle Controls (reversing)

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:03 pm
by Steinhauer
Changing the version numbers was the first thing I tried, unfortunately it spawned another error.

Failed to load mod "reverse-car 0.0.1"
_reverse-car_/data.lua:2: _reverse-car_/prototypes/item.lua:2:
attempt to index local 'car_reverse' (a nil value)

Is this an easy fix? Anyways, I'll do my best to sort it out using the code you've provided, and thanks for the reply!

Re: Vehicle Controls (reversing)

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:26 pm
by daniel34
Steinhauer wrote:Is this an easy fix? Anyways, I'll do my best to sort it out using the code you've provided, and thanks for the reply!
The type of the car prototype was changed at some point between 0.13 and now.
I fixed that issue (and another that could produce strange results in multiplayer):
reverse-car_0.0.2.zip
Reverse car mod, works with 0.14.22
(2.58 KiB) Downloaded 20 times
There is also a small issue where every time you change driving direction (reverse vs. forward) it consumes the currently burning piece of fuel and starts a new one, e.g. driving forward and then backwards 5 times in a row will burn 10 wood/coal/other fuel. This will only be possible to fix in 0.15 due to modding changes.

Re: Vehicle Controls (reversing)

Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:06 pm
by Steinhauer
Ah, the feeling when things work according to your intuition :D . Thanks alot!

Re: Vehicle Controls (reversing)

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 3:30 pm
by GeneralSphinx
From: viewtopic.php?f=71&t=60008
Rseding91 wrote:
bobucles wrote:The fact that this thread pops up every week shows it is a common UI request. It does make sense as a game option.
The fact this is the first time I've ever seen this thread says that's not true.

Anyway; it's not changing.
This is a bump to let Rseding91 know, that the other thread was not the first one.

Re: Vehicle Controls (reversing)

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:04 am
by markzl
Hi,
I too am frustrated by the way the car handles in a way that I'm unaccustomed to, so is there anyone here that can make/edit the mod that daniel34 made earlier in this thread? I've found 3 threads about this issue & if this can become a mod in the portal then I rekn that alot more people would use it & it would no longer be a GUI request issue.

I can't mod and according to daniel34 (summarized):
daniel34 wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:02 am
I only made that mod as a proof-of-concept, I don't intend to maintain it further as I actually never used it outside of testing. Anybody is free to use the above code in his/her own mod...
and:
daniel34 wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:52 pm
...This mod automatically switches the driving direction (left/right) while driving the car backwards. It's more of a proof-of-concept and it only works for the vanilla car, although a generic solution for all cars would also be possible.

... and also since we are on v0.16.51 daniel34 mentioned in this thread earlier (summarized):
daniel34 wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:26 pm
The type of the car prototype was changed at some point between 0.13 and now.
...Reverse car mod, works with 0.14.22
...There is also a small issue where every time you change driving direction (reverse vs. forward) it consumes the currently burning piece of fuel and starts a new one, e.g. driving forward and then backwards 5 times in a row will burn 10 wood/coal/other fuel. This will only be possible to fix in 0.15 due to modding changes.
I'm hoping that since we are on v0.16.51 that someone can find the 'generic solution' daniel34 mentioned and the 'only be possible to fix in 0.15' for the current mod limitations can also be found & fixed.

If so, perhaps we can have 1 option of 'normal/swapped reverse' for cars & another option for tanks?

Hope someone finds this helpful so that I can stop crashing into buildings while in reverse!!

Thanks all.

EDIT:
I posted a similar request in another thread last night while on my mobile browser, I didn't realise it was in the 'Outdated/Not implemented' thread, which is why I'm now posting here today.

Re: Vehicle Controls (reversing)

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:52 pm
by adam_bise
I disagree, the car A D works like front wheel steering, and the tank A D works like a rotation via the tracks.

I think it is already exactly how it should be, and have no issues whatsoever with maneuvering in reverse in either vehicle.

Although a menu option to change vehicle reverse behavior would let players pick how they wanted it to work. Kind of like inverting Y axis on a mouse.

Re: Vehicle Controls (reversing)

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:00 am
by bobingabout
I'm not 100% up to date on this myself, so forgive me if it has been fixed.
the one that confused me was train reversing while holding A, in that if the last vehicle is a carriage it reverses turning based on the direction of your locomotive and turn one way based on what the front engine thinks is left, but if your last vehicle is a reverse facing locomotive, it turns the opposite direction based on the direction that locomotive thinks is left.