Factorio Forums

I would like to see a devise that can split the "lanes" of a belt apart, onto separate belts. maybe just a" Y " that moves the items one lane to the left or right to separate them onto adjacent belts.

I know this can be done with a splitter, and underground belts, but it takes up more resources and space than it should. On top of that, it feels more like an exploit of game mechanics, than a legitimate logistic puzzle solve. of course that's just my feelings on it.

Factiorio whole idea is about building complex structures by using simple elements. In that way that simple elements are quite universal and can be used in many ways. Adding complex and redundant element for one purpose because you don't want to waste space and resources is more like cheating then utilizing already existed features even if they're not intended by devs.

Besides i'm quite sure that it's possible to add this divider in mod. You can post request in mod section and maybe somebody will code it.

You can achieve that easily with two underground belts facing opposite directions.
I'm not at home right now, I'll post a screenshot later if needed.

Koub, thread author is fully aware of that solution.

n7m6e7 wrote:I know this can be done with a splitter, and underground belts, (...)

Yeah sorry, read too fast. The devs have stated the "underground belt trick" was indeed not an exploit.
Overall, I think it's better to have a few entities that allow, if used cleverly, any wanted result over having specific entities for all the edge-cases.
If we get that way, we'll end with right lane blockers, left lane blockers, right and left splitters, alternate right and left splitters, the same with filtered and non filtered, and all that with 2x2, 3x3, 4x4 and more lanes, with the regular yellow/red/blue speeds.

Right now, with moderate contraptions, there is not much you can't do, so let's let it like this.

Neotix wrote:Factiorio whole idea is about building complex structures by using simple elements. In that way that simple elements are quite universal and can be used in many ways. Adding complex and redundant element for one purpose because you don't want to waste space and resources is more like cheating then utilizing already existed features even if they're not intended by devs.

Besides i'm quite sure that it's possible to add this divider in mod. You can post request in mod section and maybe somebody will code it.

see, i disagree. Since this simple object could be used in more ways than one. Its difficult for me to explain in text, so bear with me. if you divide up each belt into lanes, and had 3 belts going the same direction, right along side each other, one could use a splitter in the center to nudge the left lane onto the left belt, or right lane onto the right belt. OR by placing splitters on the 2 outer belts, one could merge the right lane, and the left lane of the left and right belts respectively, without having to merge the outermost lanes . which can just be looped back to continue on their path.

if such a machine was added, it could create the basis for whole new mechanisms.

the current underground splitter method takes up a 6X4 or 2X4 (approx depending on how you build it) the smaller one requiring some underground trickery since you need the exit belt, not the entrance. And to me it feels like we are just lucky that underground belts block 1 lane. that in a future update, if its changed to block the entire lane, or not block from the sides, then all creations dependant on that quirk are history

to be clear, i wasn't suggesting a 1X1 machine to accomplish this. I could see one splitter-sized, 1x3, or 2X3

Koub wrote:Yeah sorry, read too fast. The devs have stated the "underground belt trick" was indeed not an exploit.
Overall, I think it's better to have a few entities that allow, if used cleverly, any wanted result over having specific entities for all the edge-cases.
If we get that way, we'll end with right lane blockers, left lane blockers, right and left splitters, alternate right and left splitters, the same with filtered and non filtered, and all that with 2x2, 3x3, 4x4 and more lanes, with the regular yellow/red/blue speeds.

Right now, with moderate contraptions, there is not much you can't do, so let's let it like this.

I see what you mean. No one wants the floodgates of redundant niche machines wide open. However, I don't see this leading to that. The devs did mention the possibility of a machine that operates as fast as it has input (when they first mentioned the loader idea) this could be a single machine, that splits them as fast as an incoming belt supplies them. no need for speed variants, size variants, filters or anything like that.

+1. I like this idea.

I'm with you and think so too.

It should be a belt-blocker. And blocks one side of a belt at his end.
The blocker could realzed by a filter and gives more possibilitys for a belt.

further there should be a changer. It changes left and right.
And functionality to all right or all left.


The huge work around's to get this are crap.

Koub wrote:Yeah sorry, read too fast. The devs have stated the "underground belt trick" was indeed not an exploit.
Overall, I think it's better to have a few entities that allow, if used cleverly, any wanted result over having specific entities for all the edge-cases.
If we get that way, we'll end with right lane blockers, left lane blockers, right and left splitters, alternate right and left splitters, the same with filtered and non filtered, and all that with 2x2, 3x3, 4x4 and more lanes, with the regular yellow/red/blue speeds.

Neotix wrote:Factiorio whole idea is about building complex structures by using simple elements.
<snip>
Besides i'm quite sure that it's possible to add this divider in mod. You can post request in mod section and maybe somebody will code it.

There's also a notion of condensing atomic entities to complex ones for the sake of FPS.
And quite some times the complexity of contraption implementation makes it just not worth it in comparison to braindead and only slightly less effective solution.
I know how to implement the described here stuff. But the thing with belt utilities is that they go under high load, players build them A LOT.

On the other hand, all the above uses can be expressed in a few basic commands. So, how about a programmable sorter entity? So that it's not the modder implementing the odd-use utilities but the player himself. The reasonable input possibilities for such entity would be a couple of incoming belts and network signals. Outputs also could be a few belts and logic signals. With all that is needed being comparison of objects of known types and some basic arithmetic, this could be implemented on a tiny subset of lua which could be fed into jit.

n7m6e7 wrote:to be clear, i wasn't suggesting a 1X1 machine to accomplish this. I could see one splitter-sized, 1x3, or 2X3

why the hell would a one-belt splitter be larger than a two-belt splitter?

I think 1x1 is the correct size for this, one lane goes out to the left and one to the right.

Well, we had that discussion (and even the one-belt-splitter) more than one times before.

See what I wrote under viewtopic.php?f=80&t=24061 New Types of Belts (NOT!)

ssilk wrote:Well, we had that discussion (and even the one-belt-splitter) more than one times before.

See what I wrote under viewtopic.php?f=80&t=24061 New Types of Belts (NOT!)

I read, and i feel this matter is a bit different, due to the whole Underground belts as blockers thing.

I admit, this is my biggest beef. I'd go as far as to say its just bad game design, because there is no indication whatsoever that underground belts block a single lane. Without the help of Wiki, or just complaining about it, and being corrected, anyone could play 100+ hours, and not realize underground belts act as blockers. Then assume there is no way to split lanes from a belt.

I feel the flood of suggestions for blockers, and complaints that you cannot split belts, isn't necessarily a sign that this is a phase Newbies go through, but rather something the game should explain better. In the tips section, or visually, with an item that splits/stops one lane or the other.

n7m6e7 wrote:isn't necessarily a sign that this is a phase Newbies go through, but rather something the game should explain better

YES. My article describes exactly, that the main reasons, why we have belt-suggestions is that they are complex and the game lacks documentation, introduction, training, better graphical presentation (see viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24594), tutorials or name it whatever, to bring that knowledge to the players.

On the other hand, how big was my surprise when I saw, that I could use the underground-belts like so, it was a one of the cool moments a game can give you, when you suddenly find new possibilities, where you didn't saw any way before.

So it should be explained anywhere, but it should be hidden, not so obviouse like "Do you know, that you can use underground belts like so?" more like "Here is a puzzle. We guarantee: it is solveable. You need to find out how to learn the cool tricks you can do with the belts."

ssilk wrote:So it should be explained anywhere, but it should be hidden, not so obviouse like "Do you know, that you can use underground belts like so?" more like "Here is a puzzle. We guarantee: it is solveable. You need to find out how to learn the cool tricks you can do with the belts."

Id say somewhat. This is giving me flashbacks of an addon for portal2. Mel. There was one puzzle i went mad trying to figure out. It involved a concept that wasnt used in the main game, and introduced in a puzzle halfway through the game, with no introduction. It was so frustrating, that i gave up, and looked it up, and instead of an "aha! " moment, it was more of a "no freakin way......" Moment.
Point is, maybe have a campaign level, or something that already has the belt going into the side of the underground belt. Because asking someone to solve a puzzle, while missing a key concept, and not hinting at it is just frustrating and unfair.

That's of course never fun. All I wanted is, that some stuff should be exploreable by players, don't put it into their mouths.
And if they don't find it, well, he can make a suggestion that he misses some kind of new belt types and have some fun with me then.