Actual laser turret

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Re: Actual laser turret

Post by Koub » Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:36 am

I so much love it :) That's a real laser :)
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Re: Actual laser turret

Post by MeduSalem » Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:57 am

Klonan wrote:Something like this?

https://gfycat.com/DismalRigidIslandwhistler
Gif
Nice! :D

And now give Laser Turrets the ability to chain-link to another Laser Turret to push the Damage and Range!

Like so:
Linked Laser Turrets
That would be really ridiculous.

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Re: Actual laser turret

Post by ssilk » Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:53 am

Klonan wrote:Something like this?

https://gfycat.com/DismalRigidIslandwhistler
Gif
Nice!!!!

@MeduSalem: Not sure. Looks fantastic, but maybe they make the lasers too strong? Maybe for some kind of new (stronger) enemy. And switchable, so you can control how much lasers connect via circuits?
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Re: Actual laser turret

Post by Klonan » Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:53 am

How about a pulsing effect?
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Re: Actual laser turret

Post by MeduSalem » Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:32 pm

Klonan wrote:How about a pulsing effect?
Looks good and somehow makes me think that Laser turrets should have weak damage at max range and the closer the enemy gets to the turret the more damaging the beam (= hence pulsing due focusing the laser).

This would actually mean that the enemies could get much closer to the wall and that might be worth a thought when comparing them to Gun Turrets which don't suffer from damage loss over distance.
ssilk wrote:@MeduSalem: Not sure. Looks fantastic, but maybe they make the lasers too strong? Maybe for some kind of new (stronger) enemy. And switchable, so you can control how much lasers connect via circuits?
When combined with the above thought of Laser damage output depending how far the enemy is away from the Laser turret it might not be too overpowered at all. They might even start to suck at late game without linking them, rendering Gun Turrets the better choice to deal with enemies in medium range, and Flame Thrower Turrets at Close range for example.

Also remember the Solar/Accu thread where I suggested that anything using Batteries should require to swap deteriorated batteries (wear & tear through constant charge/discharge) every now and then? Applying it to the Laser Turrets as a form of Upkeep mechanic would also balance it due to puzzlesolving.

On top of that there is always research... like how many turrets can be linked, how much damage efficiency is lost through chaining, how much range is gained by it, etc. More stuff to waste your resources on, especially if they are infinite researches.

And yeah, there definitely need to be much stronger boss/elite enemies then, which wouldn't just die with the first barrage of your Gun Turrets.

With a priority system then Linked-Lasers could deal with the stronger enemies (Bosses, Elites, or even Spitters before they become dangerous) from a safer distance, while gun turrets/flamethrower turrets/etc deal with the rest coming near the walls... and that's what makes Tower Defense games so pretty damn well in combat mechanics: Large variety of enemies requiring a Staggered Defense consisting of multiple different turrets, each of them excelling at something special and sucking at something else.

I mean there could even be dynamic genetic alteration in evolution of Biters. The more you use a certain damage type (like Laser damage, physical damage, fire damage, acid, poison etc) the more resistant the biters become against that particular damage type and the less resistant they become towards another type of damage, due to over specialization. Meaning that you will eventually have to balance out the amount of various turret types or otherwise the Biters become ultra resistant, rendering your defense worthless. (That might actually be worth a suggestion in the Idea section to pick up by the devs!)

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Re: Actual laser turret

Post by ssilk » Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:48 am

This last point, MeduSalem, is worth more thinking.

How can the natives get more resistant against some type of weapon? What I want to avoid here is some kind of "game magic", like a counter "XXX biters killed by YYY, so the current evolution factor for heat is then ZZZ". I think that is a bit too simple.

Instead I want to point to the pheromones: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3440

So for us, every kill of a biter by lasers would blow a scent, a pheromone into the air, that spreads (with other parameters than the pollution) into the area. This pheromone is for this case a substance, that increases the resistance to the threat(s) that it signals, in this case against lasers/fire. Once inhalated (by the worms) the next generation of biters have increased their strength to that threat.
In this way there is no "magic" and you can influence that in many different ways, for example by some kind of air-cleaning technology.
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Re: Actual laser turret

Post by MeduSalem » Mon Mar 14, 2016 3:39 pm

ssilk wrote:This last point, MeduSalem, is worth more thinking.

How can the natives get more resistant against some type of weapon? What I want to avoid here is some kind of "game magic", like a counter "XXX biters killed by YYY, so the current evolution factor for heat is then ZZZ". I think that is a bit too simple.

Instead I want to point to the pheromones: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3440

So for us, every kill of a biter by lasers would blow a scent, a pheromone into the air, that spreads (with other parameters than the pollution) into the area. This pheromone is for this case a substance, that increases the resistance to the threat(s) that it signals, in this case against lasers/fire. Once inhalated (by the worms) the next generation of biters have increased their strength to that threat.
In this way there is no "magic" and you can influence that in many different ways, for example by some kind of air-cleaning technology.
I strongly agree with the Pheromones concept...

It could be definitely used to simulate the Biter evolution much more interesting than now. Killing a Biter with a certain Damage type could release such a pheromone and once the pheromone cloud reaches a nest it increases the resistance by a certain amount the next time they respawn. The resistance against a damage type could also decrease again when the corresponding pheromone cloud shrinks or disappears (altough it would take much longer to disappear than to generate)

From a mathematical perspective I wonder how to calculate the resistance level when not counting the amount of stench caused on a pheromone channel by enemies killed by a certain damage type. Somehow a threat-level has to be determined. Somehow the amount of "stench" on a pheromone channel has to be converted into a Resistance factor, somehow it has to be put into relation.

I would use something like a weighted system that scales with the amount of stench instead of fixed "evolution factors":

Laser ... Stench: 1000, Resistance: 47,62%
Physical: ... Stench: 500, Resistance: 23,81%
Explosion: ... Stench: 300, Resistance: 14,29%
Fire ... Stench: 200, Resistance: 9,52%
Poison ... Stench: 100, Resistance: 4,76%
Acid ... Stench: 0, Resistance: 0,00%

So the more diverse your defense is the more effective each of the turrets becomes. The more you rely on a single turret type, the less efficient it becomes.

Though it should obviously scale with Biter evolution over time as well, so that you don't run into biters with 100% resistance against Gun Turrets shortly after starting a new map because you don't have Laser Turrets yet.




Apart from that I would also like to see Biters doing day-to-day stuff besides just lurking around their base doing nothing. Currently they have no interest in really wandering around to search for food/water. The thread you linked basically describes the boring nature of the biters quite well and the "Pheromones" controlling their behavior would seem like a good concept for it.

There could be various pheromones/scents...

Attracting:
  • Food (Grass, Trees)
  • Water
  • Certain items/fluids you produce in your factory (delicious food replacement in their eyes)
Repelling:
  • Pollution
  • Radiation (once Nuclear power plants are a thing)
  • Electromagnetic signals (Radars, Robotnetworks, etc)
  • Certain items/fluids you produce in your factory (so even without pollution they might get annoyed)

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Re: Actual laser turret

Post by ssilk » Mon Mar 14, 2016 4:47 pm

Hehe... @all: if there are more ideas about pheromone based behavior, plz continue in the other thread, cause here it is off topic. ;)
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3440
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Re: Actual laser turret

Post by lancar » Mon Mar 14, 2016 5:28 pm

I want this implemented so bad!

Ever since the first time I saw the in-game laser tower fire I've always thought "Man, it'd be so much better if it was a beam!"

PLEASE MAKE IT SO!

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Re: Actual laser turret

Post by mpl560 » Mon Mar 14, 2016 5:46 pm

Damage done per second by laser ?
Good idea.
The current laser turret converted to plasma turret ?
That needs new "green" projectile graphics and perhaps a new sound. But also good idea.

Thumbs up for this topic.

Besides the original suggestion about the laser. There was also pheromone evolution for damage types resistance.
In my opinion there is no need to go into some complicated "pheromone" system. The evolution of alien carapace resistance responding to damage types by recent kill count by those damage types is a good idea.

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Re: Actual laser turret

Post by malecord » Fri Mar 25, 2016 2:08 pm

I like this!

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Re: Actual laser turret

Post by ShizukaMiyuki » Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:31 pm

This needs to replace the current laser turret right now.
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Re: Actual laser turret

Post by ssilk » Sat Mar 26, 2016 1:59 am

There is already a mod for it.
viewtopic.php?f=144&t=21459
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Re: Actual laser turret

Post by ShizukaMiyuki » Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:46 am

ssilk wrote:There is already a mod for it.
viewtopic.php?f=144&t=21459
I know, but I'm talking about fully redoing the mechanics of the laser turrets, wouldn't it be cool give it an AoE? and balance it via making the turret move slow and making it start from low damage and gradually increase over time the longer its on.
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Re: Actual laser turret

Post by ssilk » Sat Mar 26, 2016 10:39 am

Hm. Yes, that would make the gun turrets much more useful against small and fast enemies. What is AoE? Ages of Empire??? lol
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Re: Actual laser turret

Post by Zeblote » Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:11 am

ssilk wrote:There is already a mod for it.
viewtopic.php?f=144&t=21459
That's very nice :D

Though my image looks a lot cooler. It's missing the fire effect!

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Re: Actual laser turret

Post by Ghoulish » Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:34 am

Ringkeeper wrote:oh god, yes... both. Laser and burning/fire damage to building :D and then plantable trees.... build a nice forest around enemy base and buuuuurn it :D
The long game approach, but I'd try doing it!!

I prefer the beam look to the pew pew lots of tiny beams. Setting fire to trees through the turrets use is a nice idea as there aren't enough rocky moments in Factorio I feel, there's nothing that really pokes you and tries to upset the balance in some way beyond the biter / pollution aspect. Rimworld for example constantly throws curve balls at you, and that is what makes it such a neat game. I would never expect Factorio to be quite so unsettling in its game play mechanics as Rimworld, but adding new features to just nudge the player, to keep them honest if you will. A few FFS moments. A sprinkling of Oh shit, that's not good!

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Re: Actual laser turret

Post by indjev99 » Sat Mar 26, 2016 1:42 pm

ske wrote:
Zeblote wrote:Am I the only one who doesn't like how laser turrets throw homing red blobs at enemies?

Maybe it should look more like this :D
Yes, yes, it should look like your solid beam. And the range should be pretty far.

The current laser turrets should be called plasma turrets then.
Yep, exactly my opinion!

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Re: Actual laser turret

Post by ShizukaMiyuki » Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:47 pm

ssilk wrote:Hm. Yes, that would make the gun turrets much more useful against small and fast enemies. What is AoE? Ages of Empire??? lol
Area of Effect :3
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Re: Actual laser turret

Post by DailyFrankPeter » Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:57 am

Hell, yeah. I want laser beams too.

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