Multipurpose modular platform wagons

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vzybilly
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Re: Multipurpose modular platform wagons

Post by vzybilly »

Though, I do think it would be funny to see like 20 locomotives pulling 2 wagons at a peak speed of like 2 km/h, one double wide holding a roboport full of construction bots and 4 storage chests, the other full of storage chests.

how many locomotives would it take to move 50 cargo wagons? I will be back...
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Re: Multipurpose modular platform wagons

Post by TuckJohn »

vzybilly wrote:Though, I do think it would be funny to see like 20 locomotives pulling 2 wagons at a peak speed of like 2 km/h, one double wide holding a roboport full of construction bots and 4 storage chests, the other full of storage chests.

how many locomotives would it take to move 50 cargo wagons? I will be back...
I dont think that the dynamic weight (if it would even be needed to be implemented, I think it is over complicating things) would have to be that rough/heavy/etc.
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Re: Multipurpose modular platform wagons

Post by vzybilly »

TuckJohn wrote:
vzybilly wrote:Though, I do think it would be funny to see like 20 locomotives pulling 2 wagons at a peak speed of like 2 km/h, one double wide holding a roboport full of construction bots and 4 storage chests, the other full of storage chests.

how many locomotives would it take to move 50 cargo wagons? I will be back...
I dont think that the dynamic weight (if it would even be needed to be implemented, I think it is over complicating things) would have to be that rough/heavy/etc.
I was going from weight per inventory slot of the cargo wagon and counting up the inventory slots, it would actually be about 20ish cargo-wagons to hold one 2x5 platform wagon full of steel/smart/logistical chests. I felt that in some places, it could be to easy so I added 10% per tile used, 10 tiles used = doubling the weight, 20 tiles used would triple the weight and so on... that part might be abit much. there is also a base weight that I left out, IE the wagon itself. if we assume the cargo-wagon weighs 200 by itself then 1000 (actual value) for holding things then all my numbers are about 5/4ths too much or 120% the weight it should be...

actually reading over things abit more, I think my joke of 2km/h was taken abit more than a joke, the actual speeds for it would be:
1 loco will move my two platform wagons at about 20km/h
5 loco will move my two platform wagons at about 90km/h

I don't know the function for top speed of a train so I can't really dish out complete numbers but those didn't change after 5 seconds so I assumed those were the top speed (it would be nifty to get the function as "something with Z of locos and something with Y of wagons = X km/h"...)
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Re: Multipurpose modular platform wagons

Post by hitzu »

vzybilly wrote:Though, I do think it would be funny to see like 20 locomotives pulling 2 wagons at a peak speed of like 2 km/h, one double wide holding a roboport full of construction bots and 4 storage chests, the other full of storage chests.

how many locomotives would it take to move 50 cargo wagons? I will be back...
I just don't think that this would be a good design decision. This would like carrying a small blackhole and would break the game immersion.

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Re: Multipurpose modular platform wagons

Post by hitzu »

I've tried to find this video quite a long time and finally I found it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTMjxUINNqs
This is a rough representation of how in my mind containers should be transported over the base, filled and emptied.

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Re: Multipurpose modular platform wagons

Post by vzybilly »

hitzu wrote:
vzybilly wrote:Though, I do think it would be funny to see like 20 locomotives pulling 2 wagons at a peak speed of like 2 km/h, one double wide holding a roboport full of construction bots and 4 storage chests, the other full of storage chests.

how many locomotives would it take to move 50 cargo wagons? I will be back...
I just don't think that this would be a good design decision. This would like carrying a small blackhole and would break the game immersion.
I'm not to sure which part you're against, my joke which I disproved or the roboport with logistic storage chests... I'm assuming the roboport with chests.

A while back I said to have the train area be 1x4 tiles, allowing for everything to fit safely onto a platform wagon, but ran with the more realistic actual size of the wagon of 2x5. this would bring things down to a nice scale, 10 total tiles to 4 tiles. though, this stops turrets from being placeable on them.

I also commonly assume upgrades for the platform wagons in the form of width, this could still work quite nicely as the basic could be 1x4, the double would be 2x4 (enough room for two turrets but walls and such have to be wider, since it's a double wide train.), with these small sizes I could also see a bigger upgrade that gives double rail cars. these would need abit more work but I think it would only really be the turning logic (like the belt-corner issue). with the double line (2 rails right next to each other), they allow normal trains but also triple and quad platform wagons that have the sizes 3x4 and 4x4. they have 4 train connections, two per track, two in the front and two in the back.

I think this would make things... less easy, since it would require a good deal of work to build a 2-rail train system just to have mobile robo-ports but still doable in LATE game, pretty much worlds with 100+ hours some people could take 200+ to get a base running with that. In fact, I like this idea even more than my other one that I was running with.

tech for platform trains which give 1x4 platform wagons.
another tech which give 2x4, crafted from 1x4 wagons and some steel and iron.
Double Rail network tech which needs all train tech to be completed. gives maybe a 2 rail corner? (to make things easier on devs?). allows triples and quads. also signals and train stops that affect both rails (for single trains running along it... maybe not the stops...)
triple wide wagons tech, crafted from 2 1x4 wagons and steel and iron.
double double (or just quad?) wagons tech, crafted from 2 2x4 wagons and steel and iron, also craftable with a 3x4 wagon with hefty steel and iron.
images of truck versions of what the double, triple, quad wagon might look like
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Re: Multipurpose modular platform wagons

Post by hitzu »

vzybilly wrote: I also commonly assume upgrades for the platform wagons in the form of width, this could still work quite nicely as the basic could be 1x4, the double would be 2x4 (enough room for two turrets but walls and such have to be wider, since it's a double wide train.), with these small sizes I could also see a bigger upgrade that gives double rail cars. these would need abit more work but I think it would only really be the turning logic (like the belt-corner issue). with the double line (2 rails right next to each other), they allow normal trains but also triple and quad platform wagons that have the sizes 3x4 and 4x4. they have 4 train connections, two per track, two in the front and two in the back.
Having different width trains means that you have to build different types of stations and this is right against the idea of easy-to-build stations that this thread is about. And we just don't have any load that heavy abd big that would require double or even quad trains, so what the purpose of it?

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Re: Multipurpose modular platform wagons

Post by Jonathan88 »

Jonathan88 wrote:What could be useful is a drop pit underneath the wagon (https://youtu.be/RTIHKJ3nXLk?t=30s) It Wouldn't really work with things like circuits but definitely with coal and ores (maybe plates?)
There doesn't have to be a new type of wagon but there would need to be a track with a 'hole' underneath. This would definitely go onto a belt.
The wagon would unload when it is stationary over an 'unloader track'.

Also a similar style loader would be cool with a belt leading up a ramp to the top of the wagon (possibly a hatch added) (https://youtu.be/4vs5WBwokI4?t=25s) or (https://youtu.be/45Y6Ou--_8s?t=30s) which is a bit more factorioy!
Maybe an overhead one (https://youtu.be/WgYxGFZ2djc?t=20s)


Or if all that is too sensible: https://youtu.be/DbJl_Astx_w
(Quoted from another topic)
It's not quite the same as this but solves the same problem. It is also probably a bit easier to add!
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Re: Multipurpose modular platform wagons

Post by TuckJohn »

hitzu wrote:
vzybilly wrote: I also commonly assume upgrades for the platform wagons in the form of width, this could still work quite nicely as the basic could be 1x4, the double would be 2x4 (enough room for two turrets but walls and such have to be wider, since it's a double wide train.), with these small sizes I could also see a bigger upgrade that gives double rail cars. these would need abit more work but I think it would only really be the turning logic (like the belt-corner issue). with the double line (2 rails right next to each other), they allow normal trains but also triple and quad platform wagons that have the sizes 3x4 and 4x4. they have 4 train connections, two per track, two in the front and two in the back.
Having different width trains means that you have to build different types of stations and this is right against the idea of easy-to-build stations that this thread is about. And we just don't have any load that heavy abd big that would require double or even quad trains, so what the purpose of it?
I agree.. All that you would need for this would be a single wagon with a tile size of 5x2, as I was envisioning. It would allow for turrets to be placed. I dont know how we could have roboports. possible modular roboports from bobs mods or a special dedicated wagon would work.
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Re: Multipurpose modular platform wagons

Post by hitzu »

Jonathan88 wrote:(Quoted from another topic)
It's not quite the same as this but solves the same problem. It is also probably a bit easier to add!
Yeah, I've read this thread, I read almost any train-related thread here :D
This looks cool and it seems ok to load/unload bulk materials this way, but it would be quite odd to do this with such complex and fragile things like laser turrets or miner drills :lol:
But I don't see any reasons why the hopper cannot be installed on this platform as a module :)
TuckJohn wrote:I agree.. All that you would need for this would be a single wagon with a tile size of 5x2, as I was envisioning. It would allow for turrets to be placed. I dont know how we could have roboports. possible modular roboports from bobs mods or a special dedicated wagon would work.
As you can see on the picture (I have to force myself to draw more pictures) I propose a little bit longer wagons, I just want that all basic 2x2 modules fit perfectly without gaps. Also I can't really imagine what to put on free 1x1 tiles. Robots? Logistic chests? Maybe, but what about regular cargo trains that don't need robo stuff? Batteries? There would be accumulators that are 2x2. Also they have very little usage. Inserters? I don't see any real need in inserters on the train, not saying that making them work on a moving train would be difficult if not impossible. Any ideas? Perhaps capsule drones would be a nice addition, but I want something more multipurpose and universal.

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Re: Multipurpose modular platform wagons

Post by TuckJohn »

hitzu wrote:As you can see on the picture (I have to force myself to draw more pictures) I propose a little bit longer wagons, I just want that all basic 2x2 modules fit perfectly without gaps. Also I can't really imagine what to put on free 1x1 tiles. Robots? Logistic chests? Maybe, but what about regular cargo trains that don't need robo stuff? Batteries? There would be accumulators that are 2x2
6x2 would be better, yes. 5x2 was just a round number that I threw out there :D
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Re: Multipurpose modular platform wagons

Post by vzybilly »

TuckJohn wrote:
hitzu wrote:As you can see on the picture (I have to force myself to draw more pictures) I propose a little bit longer wagons, I just want that all basic 2x2 modules fit perfectly without gaps. Also I can't really imagine what to put on free 1x1 tiles. Robots? Logistic chests? Maybe, but what about regular cargo trains that don't need robo stuff? Batteries? There would be accumulators that are 2x2
6x2 would be better, yes. 5x2 was just a round number that I threw out there :D
2x5 is the size of the cargo wagon in game. making it bigger would also increase the size of the collision box and everything else, but it does make it nicer to work with.

As for making the stations harder to build. The only thing I would really see changing for the double wide is a gate on both sides instead of walls... I don't think much else would have to change.

The Triple and Quads are late game train setups if using the double rail. it's meant to be harder and need more work because everything at that point is so automated and easy. The hardest part these is upgrading from single rail to double rail, but the mod FARL adds this with ease. from then, the stations end up being almost the same anyway. I pictured the triple and quad train being in the player siding, allowing the station to be built coming off of the spot where it's currently at. Also, with blueprints, it's just a matter of a starting game station design and late game station design. Another point is that the triples and quads aren't really meant to be used for cargo, they were supposed to be more of robo-ports and assembling machines and such. meaning a FARL train with a triple/quad could build rails as it's using them!
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Re: Multipurpose modular platform wagons

Post by hitzu »

vzybilly wrote:
TuckJohn wrote: 2x5 is the size of the cargo wagon in game. making it bigger would also increase the size of the collision box and everything else, but it does make it nicer to work with.

As for making the stations harder to build. The only thing I would really see changing for the double wide is a gate on both sides instead of walls... I don't think much else would have to change.

The Triple and Quads are late game train setups if using the double rail. it's meant to be harder and need more work because everything at that point is so automated and easy. The hardest part these is upgrading from single rail to double rail, but the mod FARL adds this with ease. from then, the stations end up being almost the same anyway. I pictured the triple and quad train being in the player siding, allowing the station to be built coming off of the spot where it's currently at. Also, with blueprints, it's just a matter of a starting game station design and late game station design. Another point is that the triples and quads aren't really meant to be used for cargo, they were supposed to be more of robo-ports and assembling machines and such. meaning a FARL train with a triple/quad could build rails as it's using them!
Let's clarify. 2x6 is just a UI grid for modules, just like in a modular armor. The only difference is that modules are visivle without open UI and can be transfomed into entities. Personal roboport is fine, there is no need to place regular one on a platform. And placing assemblers on a train could be a bad idea: you should produce stuff on the ground and trains shouldn't take the role of a movable factory.

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Re: Multipurpose modular platform wagons

Post by Klonan »

vzybilly wrote:
2x5 is the size of the cargo wagon in game. making it bigger would also increase the size of the collision box and everything else, but it does make it nicer to work with.
Well nobody said the platform wagon had to be the same size as a cargo wagon, in fact i'd think the platform wagon would be significantly longer, maybe 2x8, it would add better differentiation between the different wagons and change up the train game play a little

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Re: Multipurpose modular platform wagons

Post by vzybilly »

Klonan wrote:
vzybilly wrote:
2x5 is the size of the cargo wagon in game. making it bigger would also increase the size of the collision box and everything else, but it does make it nicer to work with.
Well nobody said the platform wagon had to be the same size as a cargo wagon, in fact i'd think the platform wagon would be significantly longer, maybe 2x8, it would add better differentiation between the different wagons and change up the train game play a little
If we go that way, I want to say 2x2 wagons. room for a turret, train logistic chests which are 2x2, train roboport which is also a 2x2, also, train tank, 2x2. also, add in the base of the other machines so mods could make train assemblers, oil refineries, chem plant, all the other stuffs. with this, I could see a turret right between the engines and other wagons (for double header) which would protect the whole train from biters and such...
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Re: Multipurpose modular platform wagons

Post by ssilk »

. o O ( Why is this question even discussed? The size is simply that, which makes the most sense, when playing with it. If not, then it is changed until it fits. )
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Re: Multipurpose modular platform wagons

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ssilk wrote:. o O ( Why is this question even discussed? The size is simply that, which makes the most sense, when playing with it. If not, then it is changed until it fits. )
... true... but us talking about it could help to narrow down what sizes make since... my sizes started off of the current wagon then went up to fit a roboport on it, then the lowest size also went down to make things... safer if it was in the real world... though, nowadays, it's really more of "fill this box" and then the shipping companies can take it and stack the box on boats to go across the ocean, then taking the boxes and putting them onto trains with platform wagons, then when it's close but not quite there, they take them off the train and onto semi-trucks with flatbed trailers...
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Re: Multipurpose modular platform wagons

Post by TuckJohn »

hitzu wrote:Let's clarify. 2x6 is just a UI grid for modules, just like in a modular armor. The only difference is that modules are visivle without open UI and can be transfomed into entities. Personal roboport is fine, there is no need to place regular one on a platform. And placing assemblers on a train could be a bad idea: you should produce stuff on the ground and trains shouldn't take the role of a movable factory.
I think that there are two separate idea that are being discussed in this thread:
1. Allowing cargo wagons to have slots for moduals, a lot like modular armor.
2. Adding a "flatbed" cargo wagon that allows buildings to be placed on it.
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Re: Multipurpose modular platform wagons

Post by hitzu »

TuckJohn wrote:I think that there are two separate idea that are being discussed in this thread:
1. Allowing cargo wagons to have slots for moduals, a lot like modular armor.
2. Adding a "flatbed" cargo wagon that allows buildings to be placed on it.
I don't know why somebody divided one idea into two, I've described this as a single one.

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Re: Multipurpose modular platform wagons

Post by TuckJohn »

hitzu wrote:
TuckJohn wrote:I think that there are two separate idea that are being discussed in this thread:
1. Allowing cargo wagons to have slots for moduals, a lot like modular armor.
2. Adding a "flatbed" cargo wagon that allows buildings to be placed on it.
I don't know why somebody divided one idea into two, I've described this as a single one.
Sorry man, that was me :o
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