Factorio Forums

TL;DR

Allow people to share blueprints without mods, forums, or anything like that.

What ?

Baically, i am suggesting something somewhat like steam workshop, (but hosted on factorio servers so switch users can access too).
It is a new submenu in the Blueprints menu called "Blueprint Hub" where you can share blueprints with custom tags, then people can search for blueprints with tags, names, or description and based on newest, popular, and most downloaded.

Also, people can access from singleplayer OR multiplayer.

Why ?

I think The Blueprint Hub will provide better accessibility to people without access to the Factorio Forums, Multiplayer, or a PC.
Also, you can download Blueprints from people that don't play Factorio anymore.

why are people voting no?

cybersteve547 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 4:15 pm why are people voting no?

I guess because they don't agree with your proposal ?

cybersteve547 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 4:15 pm why are people voting no?

I can explain why I voted no, but of course it's just my opinion My feeling about blueprints are along the lines of this Alt-F4 #22 article. In a nutshell, I think the most of the fun in Factorio comes from building things, fixing mistakes, tweaking your build, fixing mistakes, making it faster, etc. That game loop. And just stamping down perfect blueprints that someone else made can take away some of the potential satisfaction. Personally I don't want to make it easier for new players to think Factorio is only about stamping down existing blueprints, and then miss out on the real fun.

This idea causes a lot of debate though, and many arguments can be made to either side. But I voted to my preference

Stringweasel wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 7:20 am I think the most of the fun in Factorio comes from building things, fixing mistakes, tweaking your build, fixing mistakes, making it faster, etc. That game loop. And just stamping down perfect blueprints that someone else made can take away some of the potential satisfaction. Personally I don't want to make it easier for new players to think Factorio is only about stamping down existing blueprints, and then miss out on the real fun.

Factorio is definitely about that. I applaud you for knowing what you like and sticking to it.

Factorio is also about this:

Kovarex wrote:Beginning about two years ago, I started to have these problems, it was harder and harder to force myself to work on the game and I didn't enjoy it that much. So I was looking for a way to have a break.
...
When you don't have to overcome daily obstacles and annoyances, you become more and more lazy, until even the most basic things start to be huge pain in the ass, and you don't generally feel well, this is where I was.

In the meantime, I was occasionally playing some simple games with my 4.5 year old son (Earn to die and Into space 2). I was trying to find some nice cool games that we could play together, but I didn't find anything (feel free to give me suggestions in the comments). So I figured, that he could actually try to play Factorio.

...


Once he asked me "Daddy, what is this thing in the list of things I can order?" ... "This is atomic bomb" .. "Oh, I want to order it" .. "No, we don't even have it researched" ... "But, why is it in the list then, it doesn't make sense" ... "Hmm, you are right, it doesn't, I might actually fix that". So I opened Factorio source code after a long time, and made the change, that the filter and logistic request selections didn't contain things yet to be researched (unless you force-unlock it in the settings). I made a change to Factorio, and it felt good, and I started to want more, this is how I got from the lowest point.

...

As the new BP library started to shape up, I started to feel something almost forgotten, I was proud of what I was doing, yay

and this:

raiguard wrote: ↑Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:23 pm...
the blueprint library... it's amazing! It fixes so many issues, brings in many improvements, and looks really pretty. I am in love with it. Once again, thank you, thank you, thank you!
...

and this:

Ethrel wrote: ↑Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:30 pm...
I have worked in the game industry previously. So, first-hand, I know that burn-out. I'm so glad to see you recovered. I found that when it hits hard, choosing something small. Something you can hammer out in an hour or two, that produces a real, tangible result at the end seems to really, really help. Which seems to be the same thing you discovered yourself. If there's any take away here, it's that no matter how much you love something, sometimes you need a break. Sometimes, a break isn't enough. Sometimes, you need to do something small and work your way back into love. It doesn't matter if it's programming, math, or a person, love is work sometimes. But in the end, falling in love all over again is worth the effort. If I could give you a hug, I would.

I also wanted to say that I absolutely love this labour of love.
And I truly, deeply respect the sentiment expressed in one paragraph -- that shutting down is better than selling off.

Thank you for everything you've done here. You and your team. I hope the ride never ends, but if it does, I hope that you do just shut down. And maybe pick it back up when you're ready.

and this:

Hanse00 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:47 pm The changes look like they're thoughtfully moving in the right direction as always, awesome!

As for the motivation part: We've all been there (Or will eventually...). Remember that it's perfectly normal, and not a sign of you doing a bad job in some way. I'm glad something eventually came around to showing you the joy of creation again, hold on to that.

That's just the first page of one thread about burnout being solved by not just throwing yourself into the automation, but seeing how the automation native to the game itself can help both grow the community and recover from difficult times. I'm proud of you for finding satisfaction in finding your own solutions. But, history tells us that, as tedium sets in, so too does dissatisfaction and burnout. Every victory deserves to be celebrated, no matter how small. If someone's base is made from blueprints other people made, we can still celebrate their achievement of doing the research and putting it all together. We can even help them when something doesn't fit together, help them understand, and maybe even help them grow into the kind of person that makes their own blueprints.

Please don't vote no just because someone wants to have fun in a different way with an accessibility feature.

LackadaisyFrog wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2024 6:44 pm Please don't vote no because someone wants to have fun in a different way with an accessibility feature.

The poll is about if I would want the the game itself to support an offical blueprint sharing service. And my opinion is that is it shouldn't. Isn't that the goal of a poll? To gather people's opinions? Even if I disagree with you?

And if you do think it should be part of the game, please vote "yes"!

Don't get me wrong though, blueprints are awesome. I probably would've stopped playing if blueprints didn't exist. I use them a lot when I rebuild something, and lots and lots of copy-pasting. Or even solar and rail blueprints. My opinion is that blueprints themselves have a rightful place in Factorio. And ofcourse the Blueprint Library goes along with that. The only point of my reply was that I don't think there should be a blueprint sharing service built into the game itself.

Stringweasel wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2024 7:58 pm

LackadaisyFrog wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2024 6:44 pm Please don't vote no because someone wants to have fun in a different way with an accessibility feature.

The poll is about if I would want the the game itself to support an offical blueprint sharing service. And my opinion is that is it shouldn't. Isn't that the goal of a poll? To gather people's opinions? Even if I disagree with you?

And if you do think it should be part of the game, please vote "yes"!

We seem to be having a misunderstanding. I did vote "yes", and you made it clear that you had voted "no" and why.

I have nothing against you personally, and, while I quoted you, my comment was an expression of my own opinion and my request at the end was not directed toward you, as you seem to hold firm to your convictions. Instead, my request was for anyone less certain to consider all perspectives when voting.

To be entirely clear, I do fundamentally disagree with your reasoning, but I wholeheartedly support your freedom to disagree with me. With that in mind, I have added the word "just" to the section you quoted, but will preserve the original text here.

LackadaisyFrog wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2024 6:44 pm

Kovarex wrote: When you don't have to overcome daily obstacles and annoyances, you become more and more lazy, until even the most basic things start to be huge pain in the ass, and you don't generally feel well, this is where I was.

Don't you think providing blueprint hub in game would reduce the amount of daily obstacles and annoyance that one has to deal with in the game, and would make players lazy and make them feel like making their own design becomes a pain in the ass compared to just downloading old blueprint from players that don't play the game anymore ?

mmmPI wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2024 8:56 pm

LackadaisyFrog wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2024 6:44 pm

Kovarex wrote: When you don't have to overcome daily obstacles and annoyances, you become more and more lazy, until even the most basic things start to be huge pain in the ass, and you don't generally feel well, this is where I was.

Don't you think providing blueprint hub in game would reduce the amount of daily obstacles and annoyance that one has to deal with in the game, and would make players lazy and make them feel like making their own design becomes a pain in the ass compared to just downloading old blueprint from players that don't play the game anymore ?

Yes, I do! I think kovarex gave an excellent description of burnout. However, the larger context of his post is about how he felt the game was stagnating and he was losing sight of his ideals for the game. He overcome that when, while growing his bond with his son, he set about making accessibility and quality of life features that would make an immediate impact in their experience together (properly preventing the ability to request things you haven't yet researched, and the blueprint library update).

The larger point is that, sometimes, we can lose perspective on what we're trying to do in the long run, and even small changes can help us better evaluate what we want out of an experience. The next quote was a reply to kovarex about the enormous gratitude garnered by the changes he had made, not because it preserved the experience, but because it removed issues.

The third quote very nearly state my overarching point, with "If there's any take away here, it's that no matter how much you love something, sometimes you need a break." I think this is true, in general. Each of us is not only allowed to change what we enjoy doing, but change how or why enjoy doing what we do. I love this game, and I feel much the same way Stringweasel does about it, but I've had days where I felt the tedium of even the things I enjoy doing. I've had days where I worried I might give up on Factorio and never come back.

In fact, I'm here posting in this forum because the very friend who introduced me to Factorio reminded that we hadn't played in months and the DLC release date had just been announced. Having a community, a connection to the game through people who care about you and who you care about, and being patient, not just with the game but with yourself, is a crucial ingredient in enjoying any game, not least Factorio.

To drive that idea home, the last quote is empathetic with and grateful for love the commenter and kovarex share for the game he's making. It even has a reminder that burnout is a normal part of passion, and feeling annoyed is not a sign of failure, it's an opportunity to forgive yourself and to make things better.

LackadaisyFrog wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2024 9:20 pm The larger point is that, sometimes, we can lose perspective on what we're trying to do in the long run,

This i would say is true but can be used to argue for or against the proposition depending on the actual thing you are trying to achieve. So i'm not seeing your point with that. The thing trying to be achieved in the long run is a fun game, if you remove all challenges or pack the solutions directly with the game. That was my question, you said you think too that there is a risk of removing all fun from the game so this larger point to me is not conclusive.

LackadaisyFrog wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2024 9:20 pm The third quote very nearly state my overarching point, with "If there's any take away here, it's that no matter how much you love something, sometimes you need a break."

Same here, maybe the statement can be considered true, but it doesn't support not infirm the proposition to me, it's just a general statement that doesn't mean at all it's a good thing to add the blueprint hub or not. Maybe if you "burn out" playing a video game, the solution is not adding something in the video game, but rather you and the way you play. Maybe if you add the blueprint hub, instead of taking a break people will just download a blueprint, skip a challenge instead of attempting another time, and then get bored because everything feel to easy, and just a pain.

LackadaisyFrog wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2024 9:20 pm In fact, I'm here posting in this forum because the very friend who introduced me to Factorio reminded that we hadn't played in months and the DLC release date had just been announced. Having a community, a connection to the game through people who care about you and who you care about, and being patient, not just with the game but with yourself, is a crucial ingredient in enjoying any game, not least Factorio.

How exactly is the blueprint hub is supposed to help you connect with your friend through the game ?

LackadaisyFrog wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2024 9:20 pm To drive that idea home, the last quote is empathetic with and grateful for love the commenter and kovarex share for the game he's making. It even has a reminder that burnout is a normal part of passion, and feeling annoyed is not a sign of failure, it's an opportunity to forgive yourself and to make things better.

No burnout is not normal part of passion, burnout is a problematic sign of too much of something. I never personnally had a situation where i continued the game when i was bored because i found a blueprint or felt like i needed it. On the contrary, i feel like you only risk to feel like "burn out" when you have a full book of blueprint, and only have to "build them mindlessly" on the map. Because you have removed all the decision and fun of the game, and only kept the repetitive taks, once you have completed your blueprint book.

I think it's better to take a beak and give yourself an opportunity to make things better in a another try, when you will enjoy doing it, rather than to download a blueprint and skip the challenge. Like you would have a sudoku book, and one week you don't feel like playing sudoku, you won't just go and search the answer to still fill in the grid. I think it would defeat the purpose. Instead to me it seem more rationnal to postpone the sudoku book and come back to it when you want to do sudoku again. But if you have completed the grid by looking at the answer that week you didn't feel like playing sudoku, then it's too late, you can't.

mmmPI wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2024 10:43 pm

LackadaisyFrog wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2024 9:20 pm The larger point is that, sometimes, we can lose perspective on what we're trying to do in the long run,

This i would say is true but can be used to argue for or against the proposition depending on the actual thing you are trying to achieve. So i'm not seeing your point with that.

I do not appreciate being asked to defend half of a sentence, so I won't.

The rest of the sentence ("and even small changes can help us better evaluate what we want out of an experience.") is enough to bring this into context. To deny change based on what we expect others to do is folly. We can make changes and determine how it affects us to get a better perspective. If we don't like them, there's no reason we can't go back to how things were.

The thing trying to be achieved in the long run is a fun game, if you remove all challenges or pack the solutions directly with the game.

Not just the long run, but the short term, too. I never suggested removing all challenges, and I don't think blueprints are solutions, they are tools. No one gets the "There is No Spoon" achievement simply by laying down a blueprint in the first few seconds.

That was my question, you said you think too that there is a risk of removing all fun from the game so this larger point to me is not conclusive.

Neither was that your question, nor was that what I agreed to. Your question and my response were:

LackadaisyFrog wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2024 9:20 pm

mmmPI wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2024 8:56 pm Don't you think providing blueprint hub in game would reduce the amount of daily obstacles and annoyance that one has to deal with in the game, and would make players lazy and make them feel like making their own design becomes a pain in the ass compared to just downloading old blueprint from players that don't play the game anymore ?

Yes, I do!

If you feel "reducing the amount of daily obstacles and annoyance that one has to deal with in the game" is the same as "a risk of removing all fun from the game", then I certainly won't begrudge you your flavor of fun, but I must insist that I can have fun in Factorio in different ways than through overcoming obstacles and being annoyed, though that is an option available to me.

mmmPI wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2024 8:56 pm

LackadaisyFrog wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2024 9:20 pm The third quote very nearly state my overarching point, with "If there's any take away here, it's that no matter how much you love something, sometimes you need a break."

Same here, maybe the statement can be considered true, but it doesn't support not infirm the proposition to me, it's just a general statement that doesn't mean at all it's a good thing to add the blueprint hub or not.

I view features that streamline something already available or enhance quality of life while playing as an opportunity to take a break from the game while still playing the game, a chance to play how you want to play, when you want to play that way. With this in mind, the connection between a blueprint hub and taking a break is obvious to me, and I'm sorry you don't feel the same way.

mmmPI wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2024 8:56 pm Maybe if you "burn out" playing a video game, the solution is not adding something in the video game, but rather you and the way you play. Maybe if you add the blueprint hub, instead of taking a break people will just download a blueprint, skip a challenge instead of attempting another time, and then get bored because everything feel to easy, and just a pain.

I don't have to add anything to the game, this is a suggestion for the developer, and not even they have to add it. Even if I get burnt out on a game, I don't feel there's anything wrong with getting burnt out sometimes, nor is there anything wrong with me or the way I play. If the blueprint hub gets added (not by me), what's wrong with taking a break BY downloading a blueprint? What's wrong with skipping a challenge I can come back to later if I want? What's wrong with getting bored with a game when it doesn't allow me to play it in the way that I want, even if I enjoyed it before? The way I play, the things I want, and how I feel about anything in particular are all allowed to change, and that's just alright.

mmmPI wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2024 8:56 pm How exactly is the blueprint hub is supposed to help you connect with your friend through the game ?

Excellent question, and, I feel, quite fundamental to our difference of opinion. Riddle me this: if my friend and my schedules don't align for us to play together, but I'd like to share a blueprint I'm proud of or they asked to see with them asynchronously, should I be able to do that entirely through the game? If I shouldn't be able to do that through the game and should instead go through a website, why?

More generally playing even a single player game can involve community and connection. This forum, for example, is a feature that's helping you and me connect through our shared experience of Factorio. I provided several concrete examples of the dev using the game to connect with his son, the current dev of the game connecting with a former video game dev through their mutual experience of burn out, many players connecting with the dev of the game through their gratitude for his continued efforts and good will, and even players connecting with the dev as a fellow player through their shared experience of using the game to connect with their respective children.

Every feature that even has a chance at bringing to light the rest of the good people playing this game with more than just their own experience of it in mind is worth exploring. Every opportunity to forge a connection, no matter how tenuous, is a valuable one, and shouldn't be dismissed out of hand.

mmmPI wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2024 8:56 pm No burnout is not normal part of passion, burnout is a problematic sign of too much of something.

I'm genuinely sorry you feel that way. I believe burnt out is not just a normal part of passion, but a necessary and inevitable consequence of it. Why would you get frustrated with something you don't care about? Why would you put time into a challenge if overcoming it means nothing to you? If you have no passion for something, there is certainly no risk of doing it too much.

mmmPI wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2024 8:56 pm I never personnally had a situation where i continued the game when i was bored because i found a blueprint or felt like i needed it.

Nor do I want you to. If you are bored with the game, by all means don't seek out a blueprint to give you reason to keep playing. In fact, I hope instead that you stumble across a blueprint that makes you question how you could ever even conceive of being bored with the game.

mmmPI wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2024 8:56 pm On the contrary, i feel like you only risk to feel like "burn out" when you have a full book of blueprint, and only have to "build them mindlessly" on the map.

I would rather mindlessly swing a hammer at a nail only to smash my own thumb sooner than I would mindlessly build blueprints, though I have done both. The difference is that smashing my thumb wasn't fun, but cleaning up my own mistakes from a mistake with a blueprint was quite enjoyable.

mmmPI wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2024 8:56 pm Because you have removed all the decision and fun of the game, and only kept the repetitive taks, once you have completed your blueprint book.

Surely, if blueprints remove the decisions and fun from the game, then we must not stop here. Ban the use of websites that provide blueprints. Remove the blueprint feature entirely. Certainly, nothing can be repetitive about having to make your own blueprints every time you need something.

More seriously (the preceding paragraph was meant sarcastically), just as in art, a blueprint book is is never finished, only abandoned. I shudder to think of my own collection of blueprints, even now after years of play, as complete.

mmmPI wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2024 8:56 pm I think it's better to take a beak and give yourself an opportunity to make things better in a another try, when you will enjoy doing it, rather than to download a blueprint and skip the challenge. Like you would have a sudoku book, and one week you don't feel like playing sudoku, you won't just go and search the answer to still fill in the grid. I think it would defeat the purpose. Instead to me it seem more rationnal to postpone the sudoku book and come back to it when you want to do sudoku again. But if you have completed the grid by looking at the answer that week you didn't feel like playing sudoku, then it's too late, you can't.

Why can't skipping the challenge for now by downloading a blueprint or looking up a sudoku solution BE a break, allowing me to do different parts of the game I want to do instead? What's stopping me from going back to that blueprint or sudoku and trying to later? Surely, I can try to rebuild better or understand the design of the blueprint on a deeper level without having had to come up with it on my own. Surely, there's another copy of the same sudoku puzzle, or I can just erase the answers I put in before to try it for myself this time.

Why must taking the easy way out be a failure? Can't it be an opportunity instead? Or in addition?

Koub wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 8:10 am [Koub] Is it possible to recenter this thread on just the poll/suggestion ? It's become mostly off topic.

Will try my best !

LackadaisyFrog wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 6:31 am I do not appreciate being asked to defend half of a sentence, so I won't.

Sorry you felt like i asked you to defend half a sentence when i said i was not understanding your point. Now after the explanation you gave i understand your personnal preference a bit better. I do not have the same i suppose.

LackadaisyFrog wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 6:31 am

How exactly is the blueprint hub is supposed to help you connect with your friend through the game ?

Excellent question, and, I feel, quite fundamental to our difference of opinion. Riddle me this: if my friend and my schedules don't align for us to play together, but I'd like to share a blueprint I'm proud of or they asked to see with them asynchronously, should I be able to do that entirely through the game? If I shouldn't be able to do that through the game and should instead go through a website, why?

I'm glad you prefer that question, but i don't see how you answered it, instead it seem to me that you asked another somewhat defensive question.

So let me rephrase : How in practice the blueprint hub will allow you to connect with your friend ? Do you see like a chat system too ?

To answer your question : You can already share blueprint asynchronously through the game, using headless server and "game blueprint". If you want to connect with "your friend".

And if your customs is to answer a question by another question to help the discussion unfold, i wouldn't want to let you down or be impolite and have this question :

Do you expect the blueprint hub to be like a giant dump where everyplayer can post 500MB blueprints every 10 second ?

LackadaisyFrog wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2024 6:44 pm Please don't vote no just because someone wants to have fun in a different way with an accessibility feature.

This will have a more widespread effect than you think.

Sure, I can decide in my own one-player game not to use other people's blueprints.

But in a multiplayer game, it's that much more likely one of the players will bring along someone else's blueprints and start stamping them down, and ruin the gameplay for everyone else.

LackadaisyFrog wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2024 6:44 pm Please don't vote no just because someone wants to have fun in a different way with an accessibility feature.

I'm convinced that blueprint sharing comes with advantages and disadvantages.

I like the "local, small scale" sharing, like if my friend and I play together, comparing our builds through our blueprints, "Here, take this chemplant blueprint, and I'll take your beaconed furnace array", or whatever.

What I don't like, is to make things so easy, so convenient, that the temptation to bybpass the effort of designing things one self (or at least trying to) vanishes : the more something is convenient, the more people will use it on average, including at their own detriment.

Let me give you what I would find a better example than your borderline strawman one.

If i have an opened box of cookies besides me when I'm playing, I can guarantee you it'll be empty before I notice it.
If I have a box of cookies somewhere in the pantry, I might get myself to get up and go fetch it, but I also might not have quite enough the craving for cookies to do so.
If I don't buy cookies, and I have a craving for some, knowing I'd have to go all the way to the store to buy some and come back, I'm almost sure I'll be able to resist most cravings for cookies.

Now I ask you : what's the best solution ? Having an integrated worldwide global blueprint sharing feature from within the game would be like having the cookies just besides me all the time. I have been fighting obesity my whole life (and the struggle is not over), I can guarantee that easier and more convenient now is not always better in the long run.

Instant gratification << sense of accomplishment.

The game doesn't forbid you from getting out of your way to find blueprints on the Internet, if you're willing to put the effort to it. But i'd rather not expose all the players to the immediate "get someone's blueprint", because a significant part of the game is designing blueprints. Removing that is removing a part of the game.

I voted "maybe", because I cannot decide what is better. Both having a shared blueprint library and not having one has valid reasons.

I thought about what I would do with such a library. I would look into it what others have done, then be overwhelmed by all these crap blueprints I would never use, and at the same time be awed by all these incredible perfect blueprints I could never create myself. The former wastes my time, the latter demotivates me to build something own.

So personally, I would probably never look into that library again to not waste my time and not being demotivated. What I currently do is to get inspiration by images and posts everywhere, but not from copying blueprints. I always want to create my own builds (that's the point of Factorio as I see it), and the things I copy and reproduce are concepts, but not actual builds. I once made the error to copy some of Nilaus' "master class" blueprints before my own game knowledge matured, I don't want to make this error again.

However, the developers might have valid reasons to include such a library, and if they add one, I would not object against it.

Kyralessa wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 9:26 am

LackadaisyFrog wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2024 6:44 pm Please don't vote no just because someone wants to have fun in a different way with an accessibility feature.

This will have a more widespread effect than you think.

Sure, I can decide in my own one-player game not to use other people's blueprints.

But in a multiplayer game, it's that much more likely one of the players will bring along someone else's blueprints and start stamping them down, and ruin the gameplay for everyone else.

Someone in a multiplayer game using blueprints to ruin the fun for other people is already incredibly easy for a person to do without an in-game blueprint hub.

LackadaisyFrog wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 5:52 pm Someone in a multiplayer game using blueprints to ruin the fun for other people is already incredibly easy for a person to do without an in-game blueprint hub.

And an official bp hub would make it even easier and suggest to players that using bps from the hub instead of finding own solutions is the intended way to play the game.

mmmPI wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 8:38 am

LackadaisyFrog wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 6:31 am

How exactly is the blueprint hub is supposed to help you connect with your friend through the game ?

Excellent question, and, I feel, quite fundamental to our difference of opinion. Riddle me this: if my friend and my schedules don't align for us to play together, but I'd like to share a blueprint I'm proud of or they asked to see with them asynchronously, should I be able to do that entirely through the game? If I shouldn't be able to do that through the game and should instead go through a website, why?

I'm glad you prefer that question, but i don't see how you answered it, instead it seem to me that you asked another somewhat defensive question.

So let me rephrase : How in practice the blueprint hub will allow you to connect with your friend ? Do you see like a chat system too ?

To answer your question : You can already share blueprint asynchronously through the game, using headless server and "game blueprint". If you want to connect with "your friend".

And if your customs is to answer a question by another question to help the discussion unfold, i wouldn't want to let you down or be impolite and have this question :

Do you expect the blueprint hub to be like a giant dump where everyplayer can post 500MB blueprints every 10 second ?

Per the original suggestion:

cybersteve547 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 14, 2024 11:22 am Baically, i am suggesting something somewhat like steam workshop, (but hosted on factorio servers so switch users can access too).
It is a new submenu in the Blueprints menu called "Blueprint Hub" where you can share blueprints with custom tags, then people can search for blueprints with tags, names, or description and based on newest, popular, and most downloaded.

Also, people can access from singleplayer OR multiplayer.

I have no assumptions about the details of how this would work beyond that description, and also don't think that description needs to be how it would work.

If you would like me to build the ideal blueprint hub, I can't. I hadn't given it any thought. The abstraction of being about to asynchronously share blueprints through the game was all I had in mind. For the record, the game does have an in-game chat through the console with other players in the same game. I'm not sure if you meant a type of chat that can talk to people not also in your game, but I think that's a little off topic.

To be clear, though, your suggestion to make a headless server to share blueprints with friends isn't bad, it's just not what this topic was on. I can also more easily upload my blueprint to factorioprints and send him the link or even just use my preferred messaging service and send him the import string directly.

Now that I think about it, a mod that gives access to factorioprints inside the game doesn't seem like a bad idea. I've never made a mod for Factorioprints before, but perhaps I'll give it a try and see what people think as an implementation of this suggestion.

My thoughts on connectedness are that a blueprint hub not only makes other players enjoying the game just a little bit more visible (albeit buried under 3 or 4 buttons or clicks, as described in the suggestion) to people playing the game, but also makes it easier to play the game with children or developmentally disabled people.

I apologize for not making it clear that the following two paragraphs after what you quoted were also intended to be included as part of the response to that section. Again, I have no assumptions about the specifics an implementation of this idea would include, much less whether uploads will be rate-limited or size-capped. On that note, I will reiterate the final part of the section you didn't include in the quote to highlight it and my intent:

Every feature that even has a chance at bringing to light the rest of the good people playing this game with more than just their own experience of it in mind is worth exploring.

I appreciate your criticism of my opinion. I am attempting to stay on topic and address only the topic of this thread, but feel that some responses, not just yours, include small attacks on my personal character. I will not my own character, as it irrelevant to the topic. I seek only to direct the discussion to the topic of the thread and opinions about that topic, rather than opinions about any one person or type of person.

Koub wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 12:15 pm ...
I'm convinced that blueprint sharing comes with advantages and disadvantages.
...

I trimmed the quote for brevity, but rest assured, I have read your message in its entirety and am doing my best to respond to your complete statement to the best of my understanding.

If you'll indulge me being off the topic of the thread for a paragraph, I appreciate and empathize with both your struggles with obesity and your vulnerability in sharing those struggles. It was never my intent to make a strawman out of what Stringweasel said. They compared their opinion to Alt-F4 #22, a complex and thoughtful opinion on the purpose and future of blueprints at their core. From this comparison and the penultimate sentence, I believe Stringweasel has a much more nuanced and complex opinion on the topic than even what they shared here (though their concise explanation is powerful and profound in its own right). The end of my reply that you quoted was not intended to be an admonishment of Stringweasel, but a request to be more like them in considering all sides of the argument to had here. I will happily be the first to admit that I do not know the best solution, to this or many other things, and I may never know. I have more than a healthy amount of doubt in even myself, but I continue to endeavor to do my best, both in this discussion and elsewhere in my life, not in spite of my doubts, but because of them.

On the topic at hand, I share your conviction that blueprint sharing has pros and cons. Even more, I believe any choice that is possible to make does, though that discussion exceeds the scope of this thread. Suffice to say, I believe the benefits of implementing a blueprint hub as described in the suggestion have the potential to outweigh the drawbacks. I also believe there's only one way to be sure: try it out, perhaps starting with a mod and building from there.

I, too, enjoy the game-wide blueprint library. Perhaps, someday, I can enjoy an in-game blueprint hub of some kind, as well.

I even agree with your next three paragraphs. Convenience can be an inexorable temptation to even the strongest of wills. While I am under no obligation to remove or prevent anything that might tempt another person, neither am I innocent if I make their fall from grace my intent. Perhaps, then, this suggestion could be improved: an option on game creation to disable access to the blueprint hub in this particular world. To go even further, there could be an ironman mode that disables many convenient features for people exclusively interested in a challenging playthrough. Clearly, I digress, but my point is that including this particular temptation in the game is not without possible solutions.

I would even go so far as to agree that a sense of accomplishment can be a very good thing. However, I hesitate to say that a sense of accomplishment is always better than instant gratification, or even that they are necessarily different. Certainly, they can be different, but who's to say someone couldn't feel accomplished in using the in-game resources to easily find the perfect blueprint? I would argue that utilizing your understanding of the game's menus is as much of an accomplishment as utilizing your understanding of the games logistics robots.

Finally, I agree that designing blueprints is a powerful aspect of the game, but it wasn't always. In Stringweasel's wisdom, they linked the perfect resource to show this: Alt-F4 #22 includes a section paralleling your argument, but against about importing blueprint strings. Does everyone import all their blueprints through strings to avoid playing the game? Clearly not, and having been a bit late to the party myself and only ever playing with the ability to import blueprint strings, I can't imagine why anyone would want to remove it from the game. I don't use it very often, but when I do, I'm immensely grateful it's there for the very reasons they stated in that link: I don't have to recreate the blueprint by hand. The parallels aren't perfect, but the argument is still there.