Set chain signals to red via circuit network

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ptx0
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Re: Set chain signals to red via circuit network

Post by ptx0 »

KoblerMan wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:14 pm
ptx0 wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:46 am
KoblerMan wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:27 am
It is a very simple addition to the game that will remove the headache from a lot of players
doesn't look that way to me. headache? i love trains, have more than 5800h in game and i have never needed this.
Ok, great. But now consider that how you play the game is probably a lot different from how other people play the game. You might never have needed this feature because you design your factory without needing to account for that particular limitation; however, someone else might be punching their monitor trying to find a workaround for something that amounts to a QoL feature.

This is what so many people on the suggestions thread fail to understand.
I guess I'm tired of being told that I "don't understand" the suggestions on this forum. It's not neurosurgery - it's not rocket science.

it's just that we disagree.

it might be obvious to me, but not obvious to you - but i'm sure you understand - that if you're punching your monitor trying to find a workaround for this, then, maybe it's because you're using the components incorrectly.

why does it have to be something to change in the base game, rather than something to change in your play style?

i gotta be honest, it just seems like you don't wanna change your play style, you'd rather change the game.

when i first started playing the game, it seemed really stupid to be able to put multiple items on a belt. couldn't see why it would ever be useful, only wanted it to stop because I kept contaminating things.

now let's act like that's you for a moment - in this story, you'd be asking wube to remove sideloading and other ways of contaminating belts, because a player might punch their monitor... you see?

someone punching their monitor isn't wube's problem, it is something to take up with a therapist.

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Re: Set chain signals to red via circuit network

Post by jodokus31 »

ptx0 wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:28 pm
....
I distance myself from this. I dont think it's helpful to push the conflict like this
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Re: Set chain signals to red via circuit network

Post by Sad_Brother »

ptx0 wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:28 pm
why does it have to be something to change in the base game
Because in other case game would not evolve.
This forum is full of things suggested by players to developers.
For example this thread is about weird looking situation about railway signals. Fix for it would be useful but developers said it would not be easy. I am not a modder so cannot tell if it can be changed by mods. Play style can be changed but this difference will still be weird.

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Re: Set chain signals to red via circuit network

Post by KoblerMan »

ptx0 wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:28 pm
why does it have to be something to change in the base game, rather than something to change in your play style?
Because it is unintuitive. There are two types of signals in the game. Although the functionality is not exactly the same, it is similar. From a player's perspective, why can you modify one signal with the circuit network and not the other? I think plenty of people in this thread have already been over that point.
ptx0 wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:28 pm
i gotta be honest, it just seems like you don't wanna change your play style, you'd rather change the game.
I do not implement this in my playstyle, but I recognize that players having more control over systems that they build is *usually* a good thing. Not to mention, that's the entire purpose of the circuit network - fine tuning your designs to squeeze out a little bit extra efficiency here and there.
ptx0 wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:28 pm
when i first started playing the game, it seemed really stupid to be able to put multiple items on a belt. couldn't see why it would ever be useful, only wanted it to stop because I kept contaminating things.

now let's act like that's you for a moment - in this story, you'd be asking wube to remove sideloading and other ways of contaminating belts, because a player might punch their monitor... you see?
Apples to oranges. We're not asking for a feature to be removed, we're asking for one to be added. Belt contamination is user error, while unintuitive train signals are a design consideration. As a player, you have a choice if you want to use one belt for one type of item, or put two types of item on one belt, and that's not even mentioning sushi belts... yuck.
ptx0 wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:28 pm
someone punching their monitor isn't wube's problem, it is something to take up with a therapist.
It is never the developers' fault when someone punches their monitor. However, there is always room for design considerations to make your game less frustrating.

If you try to tell someone that they need a therapist, you will be ignored 11/10 times.
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Re: Set chain signals to red via circuit network

Post by Deadlock989 »

This is yet another one of those garbage "Change the game for everyone else because I'm incapable of changing myself" threads, isn't it. Bonus points for it being literally pulled out of the bin and dusted off, that's always a good look.

Chain signals get their state from a rail signal. The suggestion that this could be overridden with a circuit network connection is stupid, because it would literally stop them from being a chain signal. If you want the chain signal to change, change the rail signal it is chained from. I mean, that's literally what "chain" means in this context. If you don't want it to be a chain signal and you want to be able to control it with a circuit connection, don't use a chain signal.

When gamers say that something was "unintuitive", what they mean is they made assumptions based on all the other junk floating around their heads and it turned out to be the wrong call. People generally fall into one of the two types on discovering this: those that modify their own thinking and try a different approach, and those that think there is a fault in the external universe and stamp their feet. Being wrong about things and learning from them and changing your behaviour is supposed to be the fun part of gaming.

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Re: Set chain signals to red via circuit network

Post by jodokus31 »

Deadlock989 wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:05 pm
Chain signals get their state from a rail signal. The suggestion that this could be overridden with a circuit network connection is stupid, because it would literally stop them from being a chain signal. If you want the chain signal to change, change the rail signal it is chained from. I mean, that's literally what "chain" means in this context. If you don't want it to be a chain signal and you want to be able to control it with a circuit connection, don't use a chain signal.
Rail signals also usually get their state from the train positions. Those can be overridden by circuit network. Same could be done for chain signals to turn it into a red signal, which does not "chain" as long as the condition is met.
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Re: Set chain signals to red via circuit network

Post by Sad_Brother »

This is not a garbage. But in your eyes it is.
I can live without it. But prefer it be.
I can change the rail signal. But which? Chain signal can get their state from different and I have no means to find one.
There are many things in universe which are unintuitive and even counter-intuitive. But this beautiful game made many efforts to be more intuitive. And I love it.

Best wishes!

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Re: Set chain signals to red via circuit network

Post by KoblerMan »

Deadlock989 wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:05 pm
When gamers say that something was "unintuitive", what they mean is they made assumptions based on all the other junk floating around their heads and it turned out to be the wrong call. People generally fall into one of the two types on discovering this: those that modify their own thinking and try a different approach, and those that think there is a fault in the external universe and stamp their feet. Being wrong about things and learning from them and changing your behaviour is supposed to be the fun part of gaming.
When Deadlock says this, what he means is he made assumptions based on the junk floating around in his head, which amounts to "I disagree with you, therefore you are stupid." This is the wrong call. People generally only overcome this mentality by modifying their own thinking and trying a different approach to arguments, but typically this behavior is a hallmark of those that think there is a fault in the external universe and stamp their feet. Being wrong about how to hold a meaningful debate with people and feeling superior to them is supposed to be the fun part of internet forums.
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Re: Set chain signals to red via circuit network

Post by Deadlock989 »

I mean, it's only been two and a half years. And in and out of the bin once.

Give it another 30 months and 8 pages of people saying "But I want it even though it's as dumb as a brick because thing X also exists which is dumb" and maybe something might even happen.

Or not.

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Re: Set chain signals to red via circuit network

Post by Deadlock989 »

KoblerMan wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:49 pm
When Deadlock says this, what he means is
Don't put words in my mouth. I already said what I meant.

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Re: Set chain signals to red via circuit network

Post by KoblerMan »

Deadlock989 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:06 am
KoblerMan wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:49 pm
When Deadlock says this, what he means is
Don't put words in my mouth. I already said what I meant.
Yes. And in particular, you show the same pattern everywhere on the suggestions thread. You have a superiority complex because you're capable of writing mods. So you grab your popcorn and come laugh at the muggles who just want to suggest improvements to the vanilla game, and make passive aggressive comments towards things you don't like. This is pretty clear to anyone who reads through your post history, and it's obvious this is what you "mean" by saying what you do.

You can disagree with someone without being a jerk. Either find a meaningful way to contribute to the conversation, or get lost.
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Re: Set chain signals to red via circuit network

Post by Deadlock989 »

KoblerMan wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:13 am
Welcome to my ignore list.

If only this whole subforum could go in there as well.

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Re: Set chain signals to red via circuit network

Post by KoblerMan »

Deadlock989 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:15 am
KoblerMan wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:13 am
Welcome to my ignore list.

If only this whole subforum could go in there as well.
What a shame. I think a better solution would be banning people like you from this subforum, because I find it hard to believe that a problem you have with an entire crowd of people is their fault and not yours. Especially when you don't have to come here and do this, but you do anyway.

Hi mods, yes, I realize I'm tempting fate on myself for calling for a ban on another user. If you decide to ban me instead, then at least I can say I stuck up for the people who make posts on the suggestions forum.
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Re: Set chain signals to red via circuit network

Post by boskid »

Implementation of closing chain signal is relatively simple (signal close is implemented on common parent class of both rail signal and chain signal). I decided to not add it because the only use case i found for this was safe crossing on bidirectional rail. If this topic goes into current direction then there is clearly no hope and this feature has to be never included in game as it would be just another super weird switch for super weird setups that are not adding intense gameplay. Closing topic.

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